Epstein

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Aug 4, 2008
2,354
0
Lexington,Ohio
This is a post from a baseball site that I thought was very good and explains why many of us felt his drills no longer applied today and he has changed ". Many of you have commented on the fact that we do not sit still and continually strive to better our product. We continually look at ways to improve our own personal teaching methodology, incorporating new and updated cues and drills, ensuring that our customers and Epstein Certified Instructors are on the leading edge of the teaching spectrum (and "in the loop"). A number of these good tips and innovations have come from you--which makes it even more worthwhile.

When I first went public with the information on rotational hitting back in 2000, it was very difficult to put hitters into positions where they would stay behind the ball and not continue coming forward onto a bent front leg. In fact, if I could get a student to show me a "decent" swing out of the Torque Drill in a one-hour lesson, it was truly extraordinary.

At that time, artificial turf played a key role in shaping the way players hit. The rock-hard infields rewarded the swing-down, head-down, squish-the-bug linear technique. A passel of changes have occurred since artificial turf went the way of the dinosaur, ushered in by a return to grass infields and struggling hitters. "Stay back" became the cue for success.

The three drills that I designed helped achieve the results needed at that time. However, as the understanding of proper weight-shifting to a blocked front side and "rotating around a stationary axis" became more prevalent, the drills I originally introduced proved to be more stringent than necessary. Again, the bulk of the credit goes to our customers, our network of Epstein Certified Instructors, the growth of video analysis software, and watching major league hitters on television (in slow motion). All of these variables presented a wonderful opportunity for young hitters to be able to emulate--and understand--what they were seeing on television.

The successes that resulted from players being able to stay back helped make the teaching process considerably easier. Today, it takes us perhaps 5 minutes for hitters who come for lessons to produce a good swing. The reason is simple: Nowadays, most hitters know what they want to look like, and some can make the transition on their own. Unfortunately, emulation is a difficult and slow process for most. Good information from qualified instructors accelerates the learning curve by avoiding the snail-paced, trial-and-error emulation process.

Since proper technique is biophysically-driven and does not change, the drills that I initially came out with eleven years ago are not obsolete, but worthy of updating. My drills made the hitter conform to proper technique and were needed at that time. This is not true anymore. Today, we find there is little need for players to have to spend an inordinate amount of time doing my drills because they can get into those positions very easily. If some are challenged, however, the drills are there and ready to "do their thing."

It is for this reason we launched the video tutorials that you find on our website. Our video tutorials update the drills that we effectively used over the years with more timely and advanced ways to help the hitter master the proper movements."

My personal experience is that my original "On Target" dvds created a really solid foundation to build upon. Adding in a weight shift and teaching how to get to the universal launch position from different handsets, has been relatively easy. The hard part was figuring out exactly what makes up the weight shift and what makes up the hand flattening move.

I feel like there is a lot of material out there that can lead you down the wrong path and get you off track. I do not believe Epstein's "On Target" dvds ever lead me astray or got me off track. They were actually quite helpful."
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,036
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Portland, OR
Today, it takes us perhaps 5 minutes for hitters who come for lessons to produce a good swing. The reason is simple: Nowadays, most hitters know what they want to look like, and some can make the transition on their own. Unfortunately, emulation is a difficult and slow process for most. Good information from qualified instructors accelerates the learning curve by avoiding the snail-paced, trial-and-error emulation process.

There's something to be said for not ignoring the Hanson Principle.

The Hanson Principle
“Always compare what anybody tells you about the swing to slow motion clips of the best hitters in the world”.
-- Mark Hanson
 
Jun 17, 2009
15,036
0
Portland, OR
Interesting...Candrea did it, now Epstein....admitting they were wrong without admitting they were wrong

Candrea evolved in a major way. At one point he was actively teach bug squishing.

Did they revise? Yes. I personally view that as a good thing. Both are students of the game and seek continuous improvement.
 
Jan 14, 2009
1,589
0
Atlanta, Georgia
Interesting...Candrea did it, now Epstein....admitting they were wrong without admitting they were wrong

There is a big difference between being wrong and limiting what you put on a hitting dvd that is targeted toward your typical parent that has a limited understanding of hitting. I own Epstein's original "On Target" dvds and I find nothing in them that I would consider wrong. In fact, now that I have read "The Science of Hitting" 50 times, Epstein's stuff makes even more sense. In his dvds he chose not to go into detail on the weight shift and he chose not to go into detail about how a hitter can wrap their style around the technique part of the swing. He limited the scope of what was on his dvds to keep it simple. Both of those areas are now covered in tutorials on his website.

It sounds like he is updating his material to meet the needs of the consumer. Customers are telling him they need more info on weight shift, so he's providing it. They're saying they need more info on how to wrap a hitter's style around the technique part of the swing so he's including info on that. I call it listening to your customer base and giving them what they want.
 
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May 7, 2008
950
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San Rafael, Ca
agree. Epstein has always emphasized things that are important about the HLBB pattern and has never recommended pieces that prevent this pattern. he has often been accused of putting a ceiling on development, but I think this is worng IF your destination is the HLBB pattern. He WILL put a ceiling on gate swing patterns/arm swings,etc.
 
Mar 19, 2009
55
0
There is a big difference between being wrong and limiting what you put on a hitting dvd that is targeted toward your typical parent that has a limited understanding of hitting. I own Epstein's original "On Target" dvds and I find nothing in them that I would consider wrong. In fact, now that I have read "The Science of Hitting" 50 times, Epstein's stuff makes even more sense. In his dvds he chose not to go into detail on the weight shift and he chose not to go into detail about how a hitter can wrap their style around the technique part of the swing. He limited the scope of what was on his dvds to keep it simple. Both of those areas are now covered in tutorials on his website.

It sounds like he is updating his material to meet the needs of the consumer. Customers are telling him they need more info on weight shift, so he's providing it. They're saying they need more info on how to wrap a hitter's style around the technique part of the swing so he's including info on that. I call it listening to your customer base and giving them what they want.


I bought Epstein's materials back when they were on VHS tapes. I remember being a little disappointed after watching them the first time, I believe they cost $109.95 back then. My daughter progressed through the drills, and I ended up with a "spinner" that never got off of her back side, glimpses of raw power but few and far between. Over the span of time I probably had a dozen phone conversations with Mike trying to understand what I was missing. One issue was the top hand elbow leading the hands, and sliding around the hip. Mikes' answer was "she wasn't winding the rubber band enough". For the issue not getting the weight off of her back leg, Mikes' answer was "she wasn't winding the rubber band properly". From my experience Epstein, at the time I was going through his materials, did not understand or teach weight shift. His newer material is a definite big revision. I learned way more from Nyman's hitting-mechanics.org website then I ever got from Epstein.
 
Sep 29, 2010
165
0
Same experience. Daughter progressed through Epstein and I ended up with a kid that at times hit long boooming fly balls, but never got off the back side and was very much a bug squisher. For whatever reason she developed a terrible upper cut and back side collapse after going through the Epstein stuff. Her strike out ratio doubled during this time. She never grasped the whole weather vaning stuff....no matter how hard I tried.

We reverted to RVP's material last summer and while not perfect we are slowly working through her issues and getting to a point where we are getting good results with her swing.

The poor girl has done so many high tee's I am surprised she hasn't told me where to shove off yet.
 
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Feb 4, 2010
51
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Gary Ward, Bob Morgan

Anyone used or familiar with either of these guys - Ward was Oklahoma State - very complicated terminology and Morgan retired at Indiana - very simple but relatively same as Ward... I went to a 8 hr clinic to hear and watch Gary Ward demonstrate his techniques. Bought his video tapes - they have some great drills for fixing bad parts of swings...

Saw Epstein speak - wasn't really impressed with that
 
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