Elbows

[itsallgood]

You are a dangerous person...

Adam Dunn? David Ortiz? Two power-hitting lefties with big upper cuts--- horrible examples of batting styles to emulate. Vernon Wells--- not bad. Manny Ramirez (now), Albert Belle (in his day)--- the best. Some chick from a rec league hitting slow pitch? I don't get it. The lefty girl who drops her hands and has the loop in her swing probably because her bat is too heavy? What's your point?

YouTube? You can't be serious. You sell swamp land, too, don't you? These poor, poor girls.

 

[ifubuildit]

Teach me something Itsallgood.

Show me who you think these kids should be emulating if not the best in the world? Make me a believer in what you think you know. What ever it may be. then back it up with data and facts.

I will be waiting and watching for your response.

Oh and that poor poor girl went 8 for 10 in her last 12U select tournament. 3 Doubles and 5 singles. 2 Ks and 3 walks.

Me being dangerous is no worse than your ignorance to what is being done by the best in the world.

Elliott.

 

[itsallgood]

I told you...

Manny Ramirez, Albert Belle from the right side. Chase Utley from the left is all you need.

But here's the point made by giving those examples: There are hundreds of successful big league hitters (HOFers, too) whose styles I would not recommend. Who would tell someone to emulate Gary Sheffield (future HOFer)? ---Except right at the point where he's about to pull the trigger. Funny, Sheffield, like every other successful hitter on Earth, has his hands back, his head down, his hips closed and his heart filled with enough anger to send the ball into the upper deck.

Hitting is simple technique, good timing, desire, fearlessness and genetics. Contrary to their fathers' fondest desires, some kids just don't have the tools to get it done.

Congrats on your daughter's success. My youngest turned 12 just before Xmas. She hasn't played 12U since she was 10. 14U at 11. Hit .550. Went 4-0 as a pitcher. Made one error in 32 games at shortstop. Playing 14, 16 & 18U this year. Has the quickest bat of anyone on the three teams.

Her dad was (stil is) one of the best fastpitch softball hitters in the world. Maybe that's where she gets it. ---- or YouTube--- I'm not sure which.

 

[ifubuildit]

Good

I understand your point with not wanting to emulate the PRE movement of some of the hitters you mentioned but we both know the momement of truth is at contact with the ball.

Most all high level hitters look pretty much in the same posture and postion at that point. If your as good as you state then I would bet you do too at contact. Have never seen you swing so I woudnt know. But you could put it up on You Tube for educational purposes. Enquist has hitting information out there and from the looks of it so have many other instructors. Some of it is not good.

That young lady on the You Tube clip is not my daughter. She is one of my many students. Many are becoming successful hitters at every level. My DD is now in college and working on becoming a nurse. I used to coach. Now I instruct just to stay involved with the game.

Those who teach should never cease to learn. That is why I came to this site. Not to be attacked but to learn and to educate and provide open discussion.

Elliott.

 

[itsallgood]

There's nothing wrong with that...

What is wrong is that many of the hair-brained ideas created and perpetuated by so-called "hitting instructors" gather speed on forums like these and become, for lack of anyone to expose them, truth.

The reality for most players with any tools at all is that they'll find their own way as long as they have the basics down and haven't developed horrible habits by listening to ignorant "coaches."

Some good hitters need guidance with the mental aspects-- and they can certainly benefit from watching themselves on video, but getting into kids heads about every little thing is a major mistake.

I absolutely cackle when some guy tries to take credit for Bustos being a great hitter. I played with her in some charity games a few years ago. She was as close to a man (from a bat speed standpoint) as any woman could get. Quick hands. No flaws. Of course, that meant somebody had to get to her and start tinkering. Now, I'd say she's a bit of a mess. Two or three years ago, she was the kind of hitter you'd walk intentionally with the bases loaded. Now, she's dancing around in the box and seems to be guessing all the time. One more year of tinkering and she'll be out of the game and coaching first base for Team USA.

 

[Jerilyn]

If you watch the girls while they bat usually the first thing they do is drop their elbows when they swing. Elbows down also helps when they hit against faster pitchers.

 

[Mark H]

Itsallgood,

We can certainly agree on most hitting instruction being #$%^ but I assure you, ifubuildit is not part of the crowd you are used to seeing screw up kid's swings. I'm all for a crusade to expose instructors teaching things that a few minutes of studying elite hitters frame by frame would expose as wrong but there is more than just one on that bus.

 

[Ken Krause]

One thing that's important to do is differentiate between the back shoulder being higher than the front, and the back elbow being elevated. In the videos of elite hitters I see, the back shoulder starts higher than the front and stays there until the shoulders start to rotate. Seems to me that position helps get rid of bat drag.

As for the back elbow, I also prefer it to be down. I like the arms and shoulders to be loose and relaxed. Raising the back elbow creates tension. How much down depends on the build. Someone like me, who's, uh, bigger, will tend to have the elbows pointing outwards a little more than someone who is slightly built. To me, it's part of the process of maintaining the box -- that steady relationship between the shoulders, arms and elbows.

On the negative move the back elbow may raise up a bit as you load. If you start with it up, it seems to restrict the load, at least as I swing the bat.

Some of what people see as the back elbow being up, especially in MLB hitters, is really more the shoulder position. If you straightened up the hitter the elbows would be more downward.

I don't know that any of this is absolute. What I find from a teaching standpoint, however, is the closer you can start a hitter from the launch position the more successful she is likely to be.

Bat drag seems to have a lot of causes -- lots more than we would like. It's a tough habit to break for some hitters no matter what you do. Despite everything I said above, I actually tried having one girl go elbow-up to try to overcome it. Didn't help.

Ultimately I still believe elbows down works better. But it's definitely complicated.

 

[ang4yanks]

My son has stayed consistent with what he learned early on...has added a little jiggle (not wagging, just jiggle . My dd has taken the fundamentals and settled into what she finds a bit more comfortable and successful for her. She now succinctly points the bat at the pitcher for a moment or two (Jim Thome almost) because she claims it communicates to the pitcher that she is expecting to hit the ball, then she rests her bat on her shoulder until the pitcher sets at which time her elbows assume a 4:45 (clock) position. Her problem is lack of follow through. She has a high on-base percentage, but will never be a power hitter. She thinks like Jeter...I'm getting to first base one way or another, pumps those arms while she runs. I feel it's about safety (solid basics) and success (what's working?). When I hear elbow up and swing level, I say to myself, "If you stay around this game, that will change with experience."

Ang

 

[ifubuildit]

Ang

You will never hear me say elbow up and swing level. You may have heard that from others but I want a swing plane that is slightly upward on the ball that will create a consistent rising line drive at contact.

Elliott.