Early bat speed - does it exist?

[_MIA_]

"as you see in Ortiz's case it isn't initially. "

Maybe not Initially but does turning the barrel and attempting to get early bat speed help achieve max speed at contact? I think the answer is obvious. Look at his time to contact time of .138. That is sick. He was a great hitter.

Way to bury the lede....

 

[fanboi22]

"as you see in Ortiz's case it isn't initially. "

Maybe not Initially but does turning the barrel and attempting to get early bat speed help achieve max speed at contact? I think the answer is obvious. Look at his time to contact time of .138. That is sick. He was a great hitter.

Is this due to active hands torquing the barrel? Or is it a function of connecting and locking in the hands/torso engine and being as connected and efficient with the torso v trying to torque the barrel back with the hands?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

I had jumped the topic in the Double Pendulum thread, so thought I would start this new one.

It seems like this has been debated in the past (see snf thread) but am really curious if there is data proving there really is early bat speed and/or what the definition of early bat speed is if it is not actually increased speed of the barrel relative to the hand speed at the start of the swing.

I am of the mind that the initiation of the swing is getting the correct tilt and hand path on plane to the pitch having the torso pull the hands which are held tight to the same relative position about the torso as it tilts and turns creating bat lag (not early bat speed) with little to no more bat speed v hand speed until the hands move from the torso in a line to the ball and whip into contact(Longoria gif).

That is what I see from the Ortiz data and the Longoria gif. In the skeleton gif you can see when the speed of the barrel increases and goes to green as the end of the barrel is facing the catcher behind the batter.

I have tried with my DD to torque the barrel to get early bat speed which it did, but it also dumped the barrel below the path and lowered the overall speed of the swing and eliminated alot of the power.

So my question is, is there data that supports early bat speed which has the barrel traveling faster than the hands early in the swing and maintaining or increasing that speed thru contact? IMO if there is bat lag which leads to release and whip of barrel, there cannot be the 'early bat speed'. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the definition of early bat speed.




View attachment 16256

Ortiz has 96mph bat speed? .... and I remember someone here spouting off about the average MLB bat speed being 69mph and that bat speed doesnt matter. Go figure!

 

[Shawn]

I had jumped the topic in the Double Pendulum thread, so thought I would start this new one.

It seems like this has been debated in the past (see snf thread) but am really curious if there is data proving there really is early bat speed and/or what the definition of early bat speed is if it is not actually increased speed of the barrel relative to the hand speed at the start of the swing.

I am of the mind that the initiation of the swing is getting the correct tilt and hand path on plane to the pitch having the torso pull the hands which are held tight to the same relative position about the torso as it tilts and turns creating bat lag (not early bat speed) with little to no more bat speed v hand speed until the hands move from the torso in a line to the ball and whip into contact(Longoria gif).

That is what I see from the Ortiz data and the Longoria gif. In the skeleton gif you can see when the speed of the barrel increases and goes to green as the end of the barrel is facing the catcher behind the batter.

I have tried with my DD to torque the barrel to get early bat speed which it did, but it also dumped the barrel below the path and lowered the overall speed of the swing and eliminated alot of the power.

So my question is, is there data that supports early bat speed which has the barrel traveling faster than the hands early in the swing and maintaining or increasing that speed thru contact? IMO if there is bat lag which leads to release and whip of barrel, there cannot be the 'early bat speed'. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the definition of early bat speed.




View attachment 16256

In the skeleton gif that shows the hand and barrel path I saw with where the barrel and hand path are close or intersect in the initiation of the swing.

The trace of the barrel would be away from the body if the hands arced the barrel early or the hinge angle was lost early. The angle would be greater instead of the small angle shown.

 

[fanboi22]

I guess I am not sure what you are saying. That there isn't early bat speed, or there is but the skeleton is doing it wrong?

 

[Work=wins]

Ortiz has 96mph bat speed? .... and I remember someone here spouting off about the average MLB bat speed being 69mph and that bat speed doesnt matter. Go figure!

Thought you left? Still dragging the barrel as fast as you can? Still getting that hip/shoulder/drag? Hope not. Sounds like it though.

 

[Shawn]

I guess I am not sure what you are saying. That there isn't early bat speed, or there is but the skeleton is doing it wrong?

I placed two lines showing the angle between the hands and barrel. At initiation the angle between the hand and barrel intersect and as the swing progresses (first line I placed on the gif) the angle between them isn't very big.

The gif is showing the correct path, the hand and barrel path intersect at the start of the swing. The hand path line and the barrel line cross each other at initiation.

If the barrel arced away from the body early in the swing. The barrel path wouldn't intersect the hand path. The angle from initiation to the first line I placed would be much larger if done incorrectly.

I wish I could find the video/gif showing both actions of doing it correctly and incorrect.

 

[fanboi22]

I placed two lines showing the angle between the hands and barrel. At initiation the angle between the hand and barrel intersect and as the swing progresses (first line I placed on the gif) the angle between them isn't very big.

The gif is showing the correct path, the hand and barrel path intersect at the start of the swing. The hand path line and the barrel line cross each other at initiation.

If the barrel arced away from the body early in the swing. The barrel path wouldn't intersect the hand path. The angle from initiation to the first line I placed would be much larger if done incorrectly.

I wish I could find the video/gif showing both actions of doing it correctly and incorrect.

My apologies Shawn, I guess I am just not sure what case you are making. Yes I see the intersection. This to me is only a function that the barrel didn't start more vertical. As well that the barrel is getting on plane. Are you arguing for or against early bat speed?

My point for showing the skeleton was only to show the speed changing from red to yellow to green and that it wasn't immediate.

 

[Shawn]

My apologies Shawn, I guess I am just not sure what case you are making. Yes I see the intersection. This to me is only a function that the barrel didn't start more vertical. As well that the barrel is getting on plane. Are you arguing for or against early bat speed?

My point for showing the skeleton was only to show the speed changing from red to yellow to green and that it wasn't immediate.

I'm not really arguing for or against early batspeed. Only that there's more to it, or that you simple don't TTB with the hands and everything comes out smelling like roses.

Thanks I wasn't paying attention to the color change and that indicated batspeed changing.

 

[badmonkey]

If we agree that Ortiz has a good swing, what I would like to see is to take an amateur's swing and lay the same graph on top of Ortiz's swing after normalizing the ordinate values of the curves by the respective maximum values and the abscissa by the time at contact for each player.

I was with you until "graph on top of Ortiz's swing". The part after that made me dizzy.