Drop dead time limit

[CHSUmp97]

Team notorious for wasting clock between innings and mound visits finally made me snap.

if time was called or between innings I would stand next to the umpire with my timer going forcing them to enforce the time limit. I’ve never seen it called but according to USA Softball a game should be called and the team intentionally delaying or hastening the game should be made to forfeit.

If you don’t like it when a team does something that is perfectly within the rules, such as a pitching change or a substitution, as time is running out, then don’t put yourself into a position where your team is on the losing end as the game winds down. You played three, four, five, maybe even six innings up to that point, so it’s your team’s fault that the other team has the clock in its advantage.

As I mentioned to someone else, I’m not changing the way I umpire throughout a timed game. If I grant a coach time to go talk to their pitcher in the first inning, why should I not grant it with two minutes left on the clock. You don’t like it, then have more runs on the board than the opposition as the last few minutes tick away.


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[Vertigo]

No one is asking you to change the way you umpire a game. Luckily we only play showcases now so score really doesn’t matter much. But yes, when a team does this purposely to waste time it can be very frustrating.

 

[PDM]

Drop dead is tough my DDs team lost a game when they were actually winning
Drop dead rule went into effect with 2 outs in the bottom half of the inning but they revert back to the last completed inning. The worst part was there wasn’t another game after them! It needs to be used with common sense. Unfortunately many of these tournaments aren’t for the game there for the money. Just my opinion I have no facts to back the last statement up.

Of course the tournaments are only for the money. Why would anyone think differently? I have plenty of facts to back that up.

 

[The Man In Blue]

You cant compare football, basketball etc to baseball or softball. The most very basic tenet of baseball and softball is that both teams get an equal number of offensive innings, unless the home team is ahead. AND, the home team ALWAYS gets the last opportunity at bat if they are behind. No, football and basketball do not guarantee an equal number of ball possessions, baseball and softball do.

The only fair way that drop dead tournaments can be played is to revert to the last complete inning if the home team has not received their opportunity to bat and is behind. As I have said numerous times on this board, if tournaments are holding drop dead tournaments and they arent reverting the score then stop patronizing those tournaments.

The only tournaments I have ever worked that were drop dead were college showcase and mean nothing tournaments that the game had absolutely no bearing on any standing or placement. Most tournaments here have been 1:20 and complete the inning.

Not sure if you are missing my point or if I am missing something you are saying ... I'm saying a "timed and absolute drop dead" is a very DIFFERENT game that does compare more accurately to a completely timed sport.

You cannot play it with the same strategy as you would a regular (or even a "finish the inning") game. That starts at the coin flip where being home team now has lost its guaranteed advantage. Do you bat first and get on the board early and hope you actually get the last at bat? Regardless, you know that you have 75 minutes (or whatever) to do everything you are going to do.

Reversion screws all of that up because you don't know which game you are even playing until the end. It would be like us playing Connect Four, and then after 5 minutes I tell you it really was Tic Tac Toe and I have three in a row... SUCKERS! It makes the game inherently unfair since the strategy you used can be rendered totally useless at the end if you were playing the wrong game. You could find out at the end you used brilliant strategy in your lineup and pitching changes that helped fuel a great comeback, and then have it taken away from you because you didn't leave enough time for the other team.

 

[S Spiff]

The problem isn't an umpire issue, it's a rules issue. Our travel team plays almost every game on a clock, and there are no rules about clock management. It drives me crazy.

Yes, football and basketball are timed, but there are rules to regulate one teams ability to just hold the ball and not play. Softball generally has no such rules. Whether it is changing pitchers, tying shoes, failing to take the field or whatever, i can't view any of these delay tactics as legit strategies that have a good place in the game. In softball, the delay tactics involve the ball not even being in play. This is a football team refusing to snap the ball (there's a rule about that) or a basketball team refusing to inbound the ball (there's a rule about that).

For those who suggest not falling behind as a means to stop stalling, that obviously isn't really a meaningful strategy either. If you have be winning a game in order to insure that you get a fair chance, that isn't much of a fair chance.

If the ideal of softball was a lopsided game where one side was gifted more outs than another, my family might not play it because that isn't a very good game. I for one wouldn't devote the effort to a game where a coin toss determined a fundamental advantage if that were how we played it all the time.

I'm not saying anyone is cheating. I'm not saying that when we sign up for a given tourney, we don't know it is drop dead. I'll say all day long that the drop dead game isn't any good. Who wants to win a game where the big strategy is to delay by not playing?
Explaining his delay tactics to me, one coach said "that's just good coaching." I think good coaches everywhere cringe hearing that.

 

[The Man In Blue]

If you’re in a drop dead and the other team starts to stall, pull out your phone and start recording. They’ll either be shamed into stopping, or you’ll have a basis to appeal. And maybe it will stop them from doing it next time.

What are you going to appeal?

 

[The Man In Blue]

Snitch.

Yeah, it made the game too goofy. You can be up a ton and dominating your team but if the one wimpy dude happens to catch the snitch your team wins. Boo!

I had to read that a few times ... I was trying to figure what secret I told ...

 

[The Man In Blue]

So, it’s perfectly acceptable for a coach to request time to make a pitching change when there’s 42 minutes left on the clock, but when there’s only 2 minutes left it shouldn’t be allowed?

As an umpire, I’m granting time when a coach makes a reasonable request for it, no matter how much time is left on the clock. It’s when it becomes blatantly abusive where I’ll put a stop to it. But it’s not our job to change the way we umpire as the drop dead time gets closer. It always bothers me when coaches and fans start complaining that I should do something different to speed things up. It’s not in our list of responsibilities to be clock managers.


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THAT, THAT, THAT.

Advice to newer umpires: control your time outs and time between innings the WHOLE game -- from the first warm-up pitch to the end. You can eliminate these issues 70 minutes before they begin.

• Know how many time outs a team has (offense and defense!)
• Control the length of time outs the entire game and be consistent
• Control the time between innings the entire game and be consistent

Anything after that is legal strategy for coaches.

Umpires who try to control/manipulate the clock annoy the hell out of me (to avoid starting a new inning, etc.). Control the game ... the clock belongs to everybody.

 

[The Man In Blue]

The problem isn't an umpire issue, it's a rules issue. Our travel team plays almost every game on a clock, and there are no rules about clock management. It drives me crazy.

Yes, football and basketball are timed, but there are rules to regulate one teams ability to just hold the ball and not play. Softball generally has no such rules. Whether it is changing pitchers, tying shoes, failing to take the field or whatever, i can't view any of these delay tactics as legit strategies that have a good place in the game. In softball, the delay tactics involve the ball not even being in play. This is a football team refusing to snap the ball (there's a rule about that) or a basketball team refusing to inbound the ball (there's a rule about that).

Absolutely incorrect. You need umpires who are doing their job and enforcing these rules. They are there. It is an umpire issue in that case.

If the ideal of softball was a lopsided game where one side was gifted more outs than another, my family might not play it because that isn't a very good game. I for one wouldn't devote the effort to a game where a coin toss determined a fundamental advantage if that were how we played it all the time.

I cannot disagree with that. This is why I say drop dead or drop dead revert are different games from standard or even finish the inning.

I'm not saying anyone is cheating. I'm not saying that when we sign up for a given tourney, we don't know it is drop dead. I'll say all day long that the drop dead game isn't any good. Who wants to win a game where the big strategy is to delay by not playing?
Explaining his delay tactics to me, one coach said "that's just good coaching." I think good coaches everywhere cringe hearing that.

This is a good point ... I don't think it is good coaching, as it is coaching to win. IMO ... and just my opinion ... good coaching is giving the kids as much chance to play as possible.

 

[flash277]

THAT, THAT, THAT.

Advice to newer umpires: control your time outs and time between innings the WHOLE game -- from the first warm-up pitch to the end. You can eliminate these issues 70 minutes before they begin.

• Know how many time outs a team has (offense and defense!)
• Control the length of time outs the entire game and be consistent
• Control the time between innings the entire game and be consistent

Anything after that is legal strategy for coaches.

Umpires who try to control/manipulate the clock annoy the hell out of me (to avoid starting a new inning, etc.). Control the game ... the clock belongs to everybody.

There really is no rule on how much time there is between innings, is there? Like I said, in DD's game, it was almost 5 minutes from when the other team made the last out to when they were ready for first pitch.