drag and hand activation

[SBFAMILY]

Someone please explain to me how the back elbow slots/connects during the swing.
When does it begin to move (slot/connect), where does it go, and what is getting it there?
Thanks BD I would post it , but the last time Howard posted this it got ugly. Like some things some see black other see white looking at the same picture. If you want I will PM you, but if you search hitters posts from last year, he covered this in detail. Also read his posts on grip and how to use a hammer. It would answer some of the stuff being posted about bat drag. I worked with a young lady last night and cured most of her problems , but just fixing her grip. The string on the first finger on the top hand trick.

 

[softballphreak]

No one can describe the slotting/connection mechanics?
What is a slotted rear elbow?

Come-on MAN, someone throw me a bone

Slotting of the rear elbow is when the elbow drops towards the side during swing launch. The position will vary with pitch location. It can still be slotted even if connection is lost.

 

[SBFAMILY]

The issue on the above is how close they slot the elbow on a female hitter. This is one of the difference between teaching females and males . They have to clear an area us males don't have to bother with.

 

[theaddition]

Slotting of the rear elbow is when the elbow drops towards the side during swing launch. The position will vary with pitch location. It can still be slotted even if connection is lost.

What is the difference between a slotted rear elbow and connection?
What are the various positions of the slotted rear elbow?

Thanks,
BD

 

[theaddition]

Someone please explain to me how the back elbow slots/connects during the swing.
When does it begin to move (slot/connect), where does it go, and what is getting it there?
Thanks BD I would post it , but the last time Howard posted this it got ugly. Like some things some see black other see white looking at the same picture. If you want I will PM you, but if you search hitters posts from last year, he covered this in detail. Also read his posts on grip and how to use a hammer. It would answer some of the stuff being posted about bat drag. I worked with a young lady last night and cured most of her problems , but just fixing her grip. The string on the first finger on the top hand trick.

I recall the thread somewhat and believe I was part of the contention that had arisen.
I asked the questions because I believe the manner in which the elbow is slotted/connected has a lot to do with bat drag. But I need to distinguish between slotted rear elbow and connection.
I think my interpretation is wrong.
Perhaps I shouldn't pursue it due to the potential "blow-up factor".

On a side note, I can see how the grip contributes to bat drag.

Thanks,

BD

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

No one can describe the slotting/connection mechanics?
What is a slotted rear elbow?

Come-on MAN, someone throw me a bone

It basically a sequential process ....

I've seen your daughter swing with two different fusion processes ... hence the discussion could get more involved.

In one approach the rear upper arm (rear humerus) can be thought to begin by externally rotating within the rear shoulder socket … and the result of this will cause the rear elbow to begin lowering. The “external rotation” of the rear upper arm will be “brief” ... extremely brief … perhaps resulting in only about 3” of the rear elbow lowering process (what you are referring to as slotting). At this point you will in a sense ‘fuse’ or ‘clamp down’ or 'freeze out' all ‘external rotation’ of the rear upper arm …. You will in a sense have a ‘feel’ of resisting the elbow being lowered any further …. And I know that’s going to excite certain folks, but the feel of resisting further lowering of the rear elbow is real ... if you know to 'feel' it, and several of us have been working on describing this process for years now. TomG can attest to us having conversations on this 2-3 years back. In fact, IMO, Tom recently posted something petty worthwhile on the topic … but let’s continue. As the ‘external rotation’ of the rear upper arm, within the rear shoulder socket, is ‘fused’, or ‘frozen’, … at the same time the rear forearm/hand will exhibit a pressure orientated towards supination (twisting). In a sense, the initial ‘external rotation’ can be thought of as the ‘priming’ of rear forearm/hand supination.

Now … the topic of external rotation of the rear upper arm in the rear shoulder socket will be a problem for certain people …. And the truth is, it isn’t the only approach to get the desired result.

Another approach that I’ve seen your daughter swing with is not through initiation via external rotation, but the ‘fusion’ or ‘clamp down’ process is still present … just slightly different … but the overall sequence is basically the same.

The actual ‘feel’ of capturing the sequence can take a great deal of effort … or at least it did for me. Tons of video performed while performing “under the hood” experiments. The sequence is extremely rapid … adding to the difficulty in capturing the sequence … but not impossible … just difficult.

However you decide to view the initial upper rear arm ‘fusion’ process, the sequence is that, IMO anyway, that the use of the rear hand … that is the use of the rear hand as I believe you want to use the rear hand … requires a ‘connective’ link, and that connection involves a rapid sequence … a ‘fast’ sequence that can give some folks the ‘feel’ that the hands & rear forearm connect first, but IMO, if they experimented closer they’d discover that the fusion process of the rear upper arm and shoulder occurs first.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I recall the thread somewhat and believe I was part of the contention that had arisen.
I asked the questions because I believe the manner in which the elbow is slotted/connected has a lot to do with bat drag. But I need to distinguish between slotted rear elbow and connection.
I think my interpretation is wrong.
Perhaps I shouldn't pursue it due to the potential "blow-up factor".

On a side note, I can see how the grip contributes to bat drag.

Thanks,

BD

Bold portion above ..... absolutely!

 

[softballphreak]

I recall the thread somewhat and believe I was part of the contention that had arisen.
I asked the questions because I believe the manner in which the elbow is slotted/connected has a lot to do with bat drag. But I need to distinguish between slotted rear elbow and connection.
I think my interpretation is wrong.
Perhaps I shouldn't pursue it due to the potential "blow-up factor".

On a side note, I can see how the grip contributes to bat drag.

Thanks,

BD

The varying positions I'm referring to has to do with how close the elbow is to the side--not really a position, per se.

The slot elbow can get ahead of the hands (bat drag symptom) but still remain slotted, so to speak.

My understanding of connection is that the hands stay with the shoulders until the hands release or fire or whatever your term is for the hands.

I believe a lot of the disagreements about the hands, arms, connection, whip, etc., come about when people start dismembering the joints. What actually happens is that our joints/extremities are complex enough to handle many different actions.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

p.s.

IMO the hands don’t move via mental telepathy … but instead via a sequential series of “under the hood” muscle actions that “establish” a “connected swing” … which, IMO, is why MarkH often spoke of “connection” as an “action”, and not as a “position” or “body orientation”.

You need to be careful with trying to have a “connected swing” by simply “wishing it” … all too often you end up with a pre-set fused upper body … which in a sense is a whip killer. Instead, the role of the upper body is to remain ‘relaxed’, and to allow ‘connection’ to be established at “swing initiation”.

 

[redzuk]

The true cure is to not 'drag' the bat in the first place ... to not "initiate" the swing by applying a force on the barrel via the hands that pulls/drags the barrel.

Allow your top hand/forearm to apply a pressure to the barrel that is in the direction of rear forearm supination … that is apply a force on the barrel that doesn’t push or pull it with the top hand, but that applies an orthogonal force .... which is why TomG said in his post "turn the barrel"

You could have just said this and I think I see what your saying.

If you look at the two frames of Tulowitzky I posted, is that what you call turning the bat. If so, it wouldnt matter if he turned the bat perfectly but failed to move the lower body, or it would result in "bat drag".

Get under the hood as you say and turn the bat then fire the hips, its impossible to not drag the bat.

And likewise is it possible to drag the bat if the core is truly driving the swing. That contradicts what i've said before, you can have the lower half work right, drag the bat and ruin the swing. With severe drag the swings can look really powerful at full speed, frame by frame they might all look like the kid on the first page. Lower half did engage, but in the wrong sequence.