Does R1 on first have to run?

[GA42sDad]

I have been around the game of baseball and softbal for a few years, but heard something tonight that i had never heard before.
R1 on first base. With 1 out B1 hits a grounder to the 3rd baseman who throws to second and then to first before B1 reaches first. Meanwhile R1 never leaves first base. How many outs?
A umpire friend of mine heard from a very respectable umpire in both fastpitch and baseball in our area, that there is only one out. This happened in Babe Ruth fastpitch. Is he correct. Like to know after all these years if R1 really has to run or not.

 

[Comp]

I think very respected umpire needs to find a new line of work. Its called a force out, when the batter became a batter/runner, the runner occupying 1st loses the right to occupy the base and is forced to 2nd base, meaning they can be put out by a fielder simply touching 2nd while in posession of the ball. Standing on 1st base doesnt change the fact they are subject to being out on the force at 2nd. Nothing says the runners "must" run, but if they dont they are still subject to being put out by being tagged or tagging the base they were forced to.

 

[honus14]

What does your "very respectable umpire" think would happen if the runner never left the base, and the batter had been safe? That they would both be allowed to stay there?

 

[Ajaywill]

Wow.....I can't imagine anyone buying into a ruling like that. What was "very respected umpire's" rules justification for that?

Not to doubt what you are saying, GA42sDad, but are you sure the play wasn't that F5 threw to first, then F3 threw to second?
If that was the case, when the Batter-Runner was put out at first base, the force on R1 is removed and they can stay on first base.

 

[Sweet Lou]

I think very respected umpire needs to find a new line of work. .

^this is the only correct answer.

 

[GA42sDad]

Wow.....I can't imagine anyone buying into a ruling like that. What was "very respected umpire's" rules justification for that?

Not to doubt what you are saying, GA42sDad, but are you sure the play wasn't that F5 threw to first, then F3 threw to second?
If that was the case, when the Batter-Runner was put out at first base, the force on R1 is removed and they can stay on first base.

When the gentleman told me this scenario i told him there is no way that there is not two outs. Then he said, well maybe i have the scenario wrong. The respectable umpire is one that i know has been umpiring for at least 30 years. So i think the gentleman may have got the scenario wrong.

 

[Christopher F Cheney]

the only time when r1 can go back to first if the batter runner is retired and you have to tag the r1. other than that it should be two outs.