Does a big push out REALLY increase speed?

[Quasimodo]

Is this "closing" referring to pulling the push leg forward as quickly as you can when the stride leg lands?

I think it if the stride is controlled, not trying to do partial splits, then all the forces of push, not elevating the hips, "shoving the glove", all contribute to the legs closing on all pitches except the rise ball. Get on top of the front foot, keep the ball down. Some of my girls throw in the dirt at first, but not at an extreme distance from the catcher. I tell them to relax. As the arm gets used to it, it will come up to the knees. But pitches are limited to 40-50 per day in that specific training. The arm will catch up.

 

[sluggers]

I think it if the stride is controlled, not trying to do partial splits, then all the forces of push, not elevating the hips, "shoving the glove", all contribute to the legs closing on all pitches except the rise ball. Get on top of the front foot, keep the ball down. Some of my girls throw in the dirt at first, but not at an extreme distance from the catcher. I tell them to relax. As the arm gets used to it, it will come up to the knees. But pitches are limited to 40-50 per day in that specific training. The arm will catch up.

I still don't understand "legs closing".

Does this kid do what you are talking about?

 

[625ender]

As a pitcher you need repeatability and consistency. Any forward travel increases velocity, however its easy to have diminishing returns. Over exertion is very real and puts a huge amount of stress on your body and mind. Its very demanding on the body

 

[Quasimodo]

I still don't understand "legs closing".

Does this kid do what you are talking about?

Well it was a rise-ball, so yes and no. She got to release quickly. I am talking about the figure 4 position. Just get into that release position quickly.

 

[ArmWhip]

If she only takes a step and is ready to release in .2 seconds, do you think the process of "catching up" with the arm would potentially sacrifice health and pitch control?

You are assuming that a step takes less time than "stride" (your term) and I don't think that is the case. A step is slow, a stride is much quicker. I see lots of pitchers warming up with a step and a full circle. Runners take less time between strides than walkers take between steps.

 

[Quasimodo]

You are assuming that a step takes less time than "stride" (your term) and I don't think that is the case. A step is slow, a stride is much quicker. I see lots of pitchers warming up with a step and a full circle. Runners take less time between strides than walkers take between steps.

No, that is your definition, semantics! I think it would be hard to believe if not impossible, that I am talking about a slow step. Let's say the fastest step you can make toward the catcher. A whole 0.2 seconds. The point is the arm circle has physical limitations. Can it catch up to that stride speed? Could the pitcher command her pitches, spins, etc.?

625ender said something very important, and I am implying it too!
"As a pitcher you need repeatability and consistency. Any forward travel increases velocity, however its easy to have diminishing returns. Over exertion is very real and puts a huge amount of stress on your body and mind. Its very demanding on the body."
You can get too short with your step, you can step in the .2 second elapsed time and you will have surpassed the arms limitations.

I am not defining a time frame, I am simply suggesting an issue that can happen.

It is possible to maximize it to where both compliment each other, not too fast, not too slow. But I feel it is usually leg speed that slows down the arm. What else could it be?
I had one US pitcher that drives so hard off the rubber not only with her stride, but her arms go so fast initially, that the last quadrant of her arm circle, 9-6 to release, is much slower than the first quadrant. She is a D1 pitcher, but she has never evolved into what she could be because of that simple mechanical quandary. Her stride was maximized honestly. Outstanding leg drive! I tried to slow her arm down instead of going crazy early in the forward motion. It didn't stick, and I was only there for 7-8 lessons. Even in college she still has no drop-ball, down-ball of any kind, and she focuses on a screwball and rise-ball which are average to slightly below average pitches. She also threw 65% balls on first pitches.

See if you can see a difference in these two strides and arm speeds? Same girl, and the arms are in the same position. The foot is not in the same phase of the stride. Which arm is going to rotate faster? In one photo she threw 60mph. In the other she threw 63mph.

 

[Fury_Mike]

No, that is your definition, semantics! I think it would be hard to believe if not impossible, that I am talking about a slow step. Let's say the fastest step you can make toward the catcher. A whole 0.2 seconds. The point is the arm circle has physical limitations. Can it catch up to that stride speed? Could the pitcher command her pitches, spins, etc.?

625ender said something very important, and I am implying it too!
"As a pitcher you need repeatability and consistency. Any forward travel increases velocity, however its easy to have diminishing returns. Over exertion is very real and puts a huge amount of stress on your body and mind. Its very demanding on the body."
You can get too short with your step, you can step in the .2 second elapsed time and you will have surpassed the arms limitations.

I am not defining a time frame, I am simply suggesting an issue that can happen.

It is possible to maximize it to where both compliment each other, not too fast, not too slow. But I feel it is usually leg speed that slows down the arm. What else could it be?
I had one US pitcher that drives so hard off the rubber not only with her stride, but her arms go so fast initially, that the last quadrant of her arm circle, 9-6 to release, is much slower than the first quadrant. She is a D1 pitcher, but she has never evolved into what she could be because of that simple mechanical quandary. Her stride was maximized honestly. Outstanding leg drive! I tried to slow her arm down instead of going crazy early in the forward motion. It didn't stick, and I was only there for 7-8 lessons. Even in college she still has no drop-ball, down-ball of any kind, and she focuses on a screwball and rise-ball which are average to slightly below average pitches. She also threw 65% balls on first pitches.

See if you can see a difference in these two strides and arm speeds?

Can you elaborate on how this stride timing issue keeps her from throwing a drop? This is an interesting discussion

 

[Quasimodo]

Can you elaborate on how this stride timing issue keeps her from throwing a drop? This is an interesting discussion

The better the pitcher gets over the front foot, the easier to throw a drop. But some have too strong a wrist action, and throw into the ground, short, for an extended period of time. Then I change them to a drop-curve.
The only other issue is can she control or complete her wrist actions.

If you adjust the stride length to the pitchers height, you shouldn't have any long-term issues with any releases.

 

[radness]

Good reads