Does a big push out REALLY increase speed?

[lhowser]

We've all heard these phrases - "Push out like a sprinter", "Push out further", "Power comes from the legs because they are the bigger muscles", "Push harder or quicker"! Has anyone actually seen speed significantly increase with an increased push off and why does pushing out with the legs make you throw harder?

 

[Powerof9]

Synchronized push, controlled momentum and Lead foot Toe touch/ pitching arm humerus positioning are the goals. Could a big push harm those...yes. Could a big push help...yes. Will it translate to more speed...maybe.
Test and analyze the data.

 

[John 800]

I don’t know for sure how much effect it has on speed, but even if it doesn’t the ball being released closer to the plate has some of the same effect, even if slight.

 

[JumboJack]

If this was the case Barnhill should be throwing 85!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ken B]

Not sure about a bigger/further push, but a quicker drive will often result in an extra 1-2 MPH. There are so many factors to consider as well as foundational prerequisites that need to be in place before suggesting a pitcher try a quicker drive. With decent posture, whip and brush in place, along with a drive sequence that gets the COM moving ahead of the front edge of the rubber when the drive leg hits the gas---I'd say go for it.

 

[ArmWhip]

Pushing out can cause mechanical problems. If you focus too much on getting the front foot way out you can lose the proper posture and end up bending over too far on contact.

 

[Quasimodo]

The pitching distance is 43 feet. Let’s assume for arguments sake, that the release point, or the hip, is typically about 37 feet from home plate at release and the stride about 7 feet long makes the front foot land at 36 feet, one foot closer to home plate than the release point.

The question is, how much speed does adding 1/2 foot, or 6 inches to the stride length and release position add? Will 58mph become 60mph? Is the “shove the glove” invested in quicker legs, or just a longer stride?

Well that extra .5 foot is 1/72 of the remaining total distance to the plate.

Lets assume for arguments sake that the stride speed stays the same, and there is no predictable loss in the time it takes to get the ball to release, then you would increase the speed by what? In truth, if the stride speed, the time it takes the front foot to get down is the same, you would at best have a 0.8 mph increase in pitch speed. But that is not the case unless the pushoff becomes stronger. Otherwise you are going backward in the quest for speed if the release time increases with the increased distance. So let’s assume using the arms, “shove the glove”, makes up for that increased distance.

However, the batter would lose about 1/2 foot in reaction time. Think about this! Is stride length the key?

There are 5 things as a pitcher that stride mechanics can affect.
1) Pitch speed
2) Pitch control
3) Pitch height
4) Pitch movement
5) Endurance plus or minus
I am sure I missed something

In general, a longer stride does not help at all, because the arm circle is directly tied, dependent, on the leg’s required time to get to a balanced release position over the front foot. It is impossible for them to work independently. Often the hips are lifted in an arc to create a longer stride just to achieve the increased length. That increases the time it takes to achieve the added six or twelve inches. So what is the key to increasing speed? Sure, maturity is a part of it, but what if your 19 year old Sophomore in college is throwing 58mph and her colleagues are throwing 62?

The answer is somewhat counter intuitive. The reality is that pitch speed is directly related to arm-circle speed. If the legs do not close faster, then the arm can not spin faster.

I try to get my pitchers to combine a stride and create an arm circle that are matched, but the leg speed is created near the maximum tolerance that the arm can handle.

Reverse the logic. How do you increase throwing speed over-hand? Take an outfielder into consideration while catching a fly ball. Set up behind, quick footwork with a strong, fast projection toward the target increasing throwing velocity. You don’t walk through it. The throw is connected to the leg speed. What if you could decrease the time it takes your arm to go around that 30’ arm circle? Say the stride to release currently takes 0.4 seconds. What if you could decrease the time by 10%? If you did, and your pitcher threw 58mph, then the speed would increase by 5.8mph. Now your pitcher is throwing 64mph.

The stride is 7 feet as I posed. So reduce that stride by 6-8 inches. That isn’t a 1/72 improvement by adding stride distance, but a 1/14th - 1/10th improvement. Again, the length of time invested in the stride should be matched to the maximum controlled arm-circle speed.

That is what shortening the stride, to a power focused release can do. Because the arm speed is tied completely to leg speed. I believe in “shoving the glove”. But I don’t believe in it as a tool to increase stride distance, but for stride speed.

 

[lhowser]

The pitching distance is 43 feet. Let’s assume for arguments sake, that the release point, or the hip, is typically about 37 feet from home plate at release and the stride about 7 feet long makes the front foot land at 36 feet, one foot closer to home plate than the release point.

The question is, how much speed does adding 1/2 foot, or 6 inches to the stride length and release position add? Will 58mph become 60mph? Is the “shove the glove” invested in quicker legs, or just a longer stride?

Well that extra .5 foot is 1/72 of the remaining total distance to the plate.

Lets assume for arguments sake that the stride speed stays the same, and there is no predictable loss in the time it takes to get the ball to release, then you would increase the speed by what? In truth, if the stride speed, the time it takes the front foot to get down is the same, you would at best have a 0.8 mph increase in pitch speed. But that is not the case unless the pushoff becomes stronger. Otherwise you are going backward in the quest for speed if the release time increases with the increased distance. So let’s assume using the arms, “shove the glove”, makes up for that increased distance.

However, the batter would lose about 1/2 foot in reaction time. Think about this! Is stride length the key?

There are 5 things as a pitcher that stride mechanics can affect.
1) Pitch speed
2) Pitch control
3) Pitch height
4) Pitch movement
5) Endurance plus or minus
I am sure I missed something

In general, a longer stride does not help at all, because the arm circle is directly tied, dependent, on the leg’s required time to get to a balanced release position over the front foot. It is impossible for them to work independently. Often the hips are lifted in an arc to create a longer stride just to achieve the increased length. That increases the time it takes to achieve the added six or twelve inches. So what is the key to increasing speed? Sure, maturity is a part of it, but what if your 19 year old Sophomore in college is throwing 58mph and her colleagues are throwing 62?

The answer is somewhat counter intuitive. The reality is that pitch speed is directly related to arm-circle speed. If the legs do not close faster, then the arm can not spin faster.

I try to get my pitchers to combine a stride and create an arm circle that are matched, but the leg speed is created near the maximum tolerance that the arm can handle.

Reverse the logic. How do you increase throwing speed over-hand? Take an outfielder into consideration while catching a fly ball. Set up behind, quick footwork with a strong, fast projection toward the target increasing throwing velocity. You don’t walk through it. The throw is connected to the leg speed. What if you could decrease the time it takes your arm to go around that 30’ arm circle? Say the stride to release currently takes 0.4 seconds. What if you could decrease the time by 10%? If you did, and your pitcher threw 58mph, then the speed would increase by 5.8mph. Now your pitcher is throwing 64mph.

The stride is 7 feet as I posed. So reduce that stride by 6-8 inches. That isn’t a 1/72 improvement by adding stride distance, but a 1/14th - 1/10th improvement. Again, the length of time invested in the stride should be matched to the maximum controlled arm-circle speed.

That is what shortening the stride, to a power focused release can do. Because the arm speed is tied completely to leg speed. I believe in “shoving the glove”. But I don’t believe in it as a tool to increase stride distance, but for stride speed.

That was an insightful and thoughtful reply. I appreciate it. I've got a big tall girl who strides far. She is 5'10" 15 yo, 170 lbs. Striding with ease without my prompting just short of 7 feet. I am thinking of shortening it. She is throwing at just an average speed (53ish) and has a unique posture (big backward lean...I should just post a video shouldn't I??)

If you will - explain this

" I try to get my pitchers to combine a stride and create an arm circle that are matched, but the leg speed is created near the maximum tolerance that the arm can handle. "

 

[Quasimodo]

That was an insightful and thoughtful reply. I appreciate it. I've got a big tall girl who strides far. She is 5'10" 15 yo, 170 lbs. Striding with ease without my prompting just short of 7 feet. I am thinking of shortening it. She is throwing at just an average speed (53ish) and has a unique posture (big backward lean...I should just post a video shouldn't I??)

If you will - explain this

" I try to get my pitchers to combine a stride and create an arm circle that are matched, but the leg speed is created near the maximum tolerance that the arm can handle. "

If the pitcher just took a step, not a push, how fast would the arm have to spin? In other words you put strain on the arm.

So I try to match the stride the how much the arm can safely accept. Generally that is about equivalent to their height. My tallest pitcher here happens to be 5'7", but I am not coaching her yet. My tallest that I am coaching is 5'5". She is too powerful in a sense and strode too far; 7.5 feet. I have her at 5.5 feet now. In one day she went from 58 to 63 mph. She hit 64 mph in that practice 3 times, but not in games yet, so generally she throws 62-63. That is a big jump for one day. I am going to amend my post just a little. All my girls close their legs with a lot of force. They don't step shorter by stepping lightly! I don't have any photos of her pitching. Then the lockdown hit us and Duterte still has us locked down, all but the two most popular sports here; basketball and volleyball. The girl who understands this best, and applies it, is only 5' tall. She beat both of these US pitchers. She throws 60 and hits 61 mph.

I need to amend. Watch Rachel Garcia, who is Filipino by the way, and how fast she gets onto her front foot. I don't know anyone in college softball right now that throws harder than her; 72mph top end. Starting at: 0:31

 

[lhowser]

If the pitcher just took a step, not a push, how fast would the arm have to spin? In other words you put strain on the arm.

So I try to match the stride the how much the arm can safely accept. Generally that is about equivalent to their height. My tallest pitcher here happens to be 5'7", but I am not coaching her yet. My tallest that I am coaching is 5'5". She is too powerful in a sense and strode too far; 7.5 feet. I have her at 5.5 feet now. In one day she went from 58 to 63 mph. She hit 64 mph in that practice 3 times, but not in games yet, so generally she throws 62-63. That is a big jump for one day. I don't have any photos of her pitching. Then the lockdown hit us and Duterte still has us locked down, all but the two most popular sports here; basketball and volleyball. The girl who understands this best, and applies it, is only 5' tall. She beat both of these US pitchers. She throws 60 and hits 61 mph.

I need to amend. Watch Rachel Garcia, who is Filipino by the way, and how fast she gets onto her front foot. I don't know anyone in college softball right now that throws harder than her; 72mph top end. Starting at: 0:31

Fantastic. Appreciate the explanation and the video and picture support!