Delaying play to run clock time off

[The Man In Blue]

On initial review, your response felt awfully condescending and pedantic so we will see how it goes.

I started to reply to each point, but it was becoming too much.

I'll give a few short points, then I'll just have to agree to disagree.

The clock runs the entire game. There are legal ways to run out clock and there are bush-league ways to run out the clock. Tying shoes takes the same amount of time whether it is done in the first three minutes of the game, the last three minutes of the game, or anywhere in between.

Either way, the clock is a part of the game when it is imposed in tournaments. Coaches should be aware of that the entire game, not just be outraged when it doesn't go their way and then try to blame that on the clock, the other team, or the umpires.

There are rules in place to keep the game moving. Umpires need to be on top of this the entire game.

Last weekend I called games with a 90-minute, finish the inning time limit. I only had one game of fourteen where we played less than 6 innings (and that was a run-rule game that ended early). If you teach your team to be prepared, coach your team efficiently, and actually manage your dugout you will rarely have to worry about a clock.

My opinions are not coming from an umpire who is just trying to collect a check. As I have said, if you come out and hustle and play a good game, we are going to play as much as we can. If you come out and act like its amateur hour for the first 70 minutes, I'm doing what I can to get us out of here and on to the next game. I agree teams can travel from long distances and spend lots of money on this and that should be respected, but that doesn't give them the right to act like horse's asses and waste everybody else's time with their own inexperience/incompetence.

My comments can apply at any level, but I will say they are directed at younger levels and more novice coaches. I rarely, if ever, see these issues at quality 18u and 16u tournaments. That's not dropping the ball on any certain door, as I have seen plenty of quality 10u teams that came out, got down to business, and had fun doing it for 7 innings. It really all comes back to the coach.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I'm just throwing this out for discussion, not endorsing, but what would happen if you did this...

1. Give the offensive team the option of taking an immediate and automatic out when trailing by 3 runs or fewer. [This prevents having players make outs on purpose, which is disrespectful to the game, and it gives the offense a weapon against stalling, albeit it at a price. I wouldn't even charge a batter with an out. Let her start the next inning.]

2. Add 5 minutes to the clock for any defensive timeout or equipment delay by the leading team in the final 10 minutes of regulation. No more than 5 minutes can be added to a game. [If a timeout is really needed, then what's 5 minutes? In fact, you might look at this rule as adding 5 minutes to every game, but the team in the lead can shorten the game 5 minutes by not delaying it with a sham timeout or other shenanigan.]

1.) I'm not sure how I feel about this one. I guess I don't really care one way or the other. If a team wants to "give itself up" to get to the next inning, I suppose I don't object. This is a pretty rare occurrence though.

2.) Oh god no! I'm not adding more time on when we couldn't manage the time we had! You broke your toys, I'm not buying more!

 

[flash277]

I had a timed 80 minute bracket game yesterday, bottom 6 home team up 4 2, two outs, 1-2 count. on batter. I knew time was getting close, if home batter struck out, game would got to top 7 The pitcher was on the mound taking a sign when my alarm went off ending the game. Away coach was a little upset, saying the batter should complete at bat, I said, nope, times up, even if she struck out, game would still be over. All the simple delays in the game came down to the away team being seconds short of a strikeout and a chance to win.

 

[radness]

I had a timed 80 minute bracket game yesterday, bottom 6 home team up 4 2, two outs, 1-2 count. on batter. I knew time was getting close, if home batter struck out, game would got to top 7 The pitcher was on the mound taking a sign when my alarm went off ending the game. Away coach was a little upset, saying the batter should complete at bat, I said, nope, times up, even if she struck out, game would still be over. All the simple delays in the game came down to the away team being seconds short of a strikeout and a chance to win.

Imagine that scenario,
1-2 count, clock ticking down.
( not certain if those were called strikes or swinging strikes)
However strategy applied could have been, swing or bunt one of those first three pitches to expeditiously put the ball in play. Strategy and time management might have been the best decision to work those last seconds of the game to that teams last opportunity to win.
Just saying...
Clock expiring is not the best moment to watch pitches go by.

 

[slagothar]

We had a blatant stall. We were down 4-3 going into last inning. We were batting in top of inning and started putting up runs; we were up 9-4. In a drop dead format (not finish the inning), the other team knew if the clock expired without them finishing their at bat in the bottom of the inning, the score reverts.

Let the stalling begin....mound visit, then mound visit, change pitcher. Tell pitcher to not throw any strikes, rolling ball in. We tell batters to swing at anything, ground ball to second baseman who then holds ball, not making any attempt to throw out base runner (would have been out by 20 feet - I guess this should be ruled reach 1st base via fielder's choice?). We leave base early to end inning, but by this time, not enough time left to pitch to 3 batters in bottom of inning. Score reverts, we lose.

Our coaches share some culpability, by continuing to score runs while clock is ticking, but seriously? This was the worst I have seen in 15 years of watching my daughters play.

 

[Agcy]

We had a blatant stall. We were down 4-3 going into last inning. We were batting in top of inning and started putting up runs; we were up 9-4. In a drop dead format (not finish the inning), the other team knew if the clock expired without them finishing their at bat in the bottom of the inning, the score reverts.

Let the stalling begin....mound visit, then mound visit, change pitcher. Tell pitcher to not throw any strikes, rolling ball in. We tell batters to swing at anything, ground ball to second baseman who then holds ball, not making any attempt to throw out base runner (would have been out by 20 feet - I guess this should be ruled reach 1st base via fielder's choice?). We leave base early to end inning, but by this time, not enough time left to pitch to 3 batters in bottom of inning. Score reverts, we lose.

Our coaches share some culpability, by continuing to score runs while clock is ticking, but seriously? This was the worst I have seen in 15 years of watching my daughters play.

I said it before, but have your batters change from one side of the plate to the other while the pitcher is on the rubber. Auto out without a pitch. Much faster than anything else and less risk.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Imagine that scenario,
1-2 count, clock ticking down.
( not certain if those were called strikes or swinging strikes)
However strategy applied could have been, swing or bunt one of those first three pitches to expeditiously put the ball in play. Strategy and time management might have been the best decision to work those last seconds of the game to that teams last opportunity to win.
Just saying...
Clock expiring is not the best moment to watch pitches go by.

The home team was up ... they didn't want to give the visitors another at bat. They played it right.

I read it the same way when I initially read it.

But as the visiting team, I would have to ask myself ...

• Was the (illegal) whole team pow-wow outside the dugout necessary every half inning?
• What if I had another player or a coach go warm up the pitcher while the catcher was getting ready?
• What if I had known who my courtesy runner was back in the 2nd and 4th innings?
• Did I need to instruct my catcher to go talk to the pitcher 3 pitches into the inning?
• How much time did I spend looking at my card and calling out Bingo numbers on EVERY SINGLE pitch my batters took?
• How about that time spent watching my catcher fumble around as I called more Bingo numbers, then watching the pitcher fumble around?

But I'm sure it was the other team's fault for "stalling."

 

[The Man In Blue]

We had a blatant stall. We were down 4-3 going into last inning. We were batting in top of inning and started putting up runs; we were up 9-4. In a drop dead format (not finish the inning), the other team knew if the clock expired without them finishing their at bat in the bottom of the inning, the score reverts.

Let the stalling begin....mound visit, then mound visit, change pitcher. Tell pitcher to not throw any strikes, rolling ball in. We tell batters to swing at anything, ground ball to second baseman who then holds ball, not making any attempt to throw out base runner (would have been out by 20 feet - I guess this should be ruled reach 1st base via fielder's choice?). We leave base early to end inning, but by this time, not enough time left to pitch to 3 batters in bottom of inning. Score reverts, we lose.

Our coaches share some culpability, by continuing to score runs while clock is ticking, but seriously? This was the worst I have seen in 15 years of watching my daughters play.

I will start be saying REVERT is the WORST POSSIBLE way to do anything. I am amenable to drop dead, but NEVER to taking play off the board. That is the stupidest thing you could possibly do. You either subscribe to the traditionalist "the home team must bat last" and finish the inning, or you accept there is a clock on the game and you play drop dead ... period.

That said ... there was a clock on the game and they almost played it within the rules ...

• mound visit ... legal ...
• mound visit ... legal (assuming they have them left)
• changing the pitcher ... legal (assuming the pitcher who started the inning has faced a full batter)
• don't throw strikes ... legal
• rolling the ball ... ILLEGAL
• not making a play ... legal (I'm not a book keeper, but I'd charge an error, not and FC)

Again, complain about the closing moments, but then examine what your team did the entire game. What if you had those seconds and minutes back?

 

[radness]

I will start be saying REVERT is the WORST POSSIBLE way to do anything.

What/Where is the origin of that?

Seriously who was sitting around the keg making a decision... 'hey I know... if time expires we'll just revert back to the end of the last inning. Who cares if we play half an inning and we scrap what happens.'

 

[flash277]

I will start be saying REVERT is the WORST POSSIBLE way to do anything. I am amenable to drop dead, but NEVER to taking play off the board. That is the stupidest thing you could possibly do. You either subscribe to the traditionalist "the home team must bat last" and finish the inning, or you accept there is a clock on the game and you play drop dead ... period.

That said ... there was a clock on the game and they almost played it within the rules ...

• mound visit ... legal ...
• mound visit ... legal (assuming they have them left)
• changing the pitcher ... legal (assuming the pitcher who started the inning has faced a full batter)
• don't throw strikes ... legal
• rolling the ball ... ILLEGAL
• not making a play ... legal (I'm not a book keeper, but I'd charge an error, not and FC)

Again, complain about the closing moments, but then examine what your team did the entire game. What if you had those seconds and minutes back?

Isn't the penalty for rolling the ball a Ball?