Deception

[Sparky Guy]

Was playing a PGF tournament this weekend. At the plate conference the HP umpire tells us we're playing "Straight ASA rules." I stopped him and told him it's a PGF tournament and the information packet says were using FED rules with no step-back allowed off of the pitching rubber. After a blank stare for a few seconds he nods his head and says OK. No problems there.

3rd inning of the game we're up to bat. I have R1 on 1st no outs. Batter has a 1-2 count on her. The pitcher throws a trick pitch. She threw the ball at the start of the pitching motion like she was throwing a slow-pitch pitch. She did a legal leap and stopped her arm after the release and did not continue with her arm circle. Everything thing she did was legal. The ball fell short of the plate. The HP umpire calls illegal pitch.

The opposing team coach comes out and asks the umpire what was illegal about the pitch. The umpire said it was "Deception." That's why it was illegal. At that point I knew I just got a gift. The other coach went back to the dugout shaking her head and muttering to herself. So now I've got a 2-2 count on my batter with R1 perched on 2nd base.

Other than a hidden ball trick or something of that nature is there something in the FED rules about "Deception" because a pitcher did not use a standard delivery or the delivery she's been using in the game? I'm thinking the difference between a full windmill and a slingshot delivery. While both are different they are legal. To me the pitch the girl threw was a different version of a slingshot pitch.

 

[Comp]

Nothing in the rule book about deception. As long as everything else was legal about her delivery and she did not continue the arm rotation after release the pitch was 100% legal.

 

[MTR]

Was playing a PGF tournament this weekend. At the plate conference the HP umpire tells us we're playing "Straight ASA rules." I stopped him and told him it's a PGF tournament and the information packet says were using FED rules with no step-back allowed off of the pitching rubber. After a blank stare for a few seconds he nods his head and says OK. No problems there.

3rd inning of the game we're up to bat. I have R1 on 1st no outs. Batter has a 1-2 count on her. The pitcher throws a trick pitch. She threw the ball at the start of the pitching motion like she was throwing a slow-pitch pitch. She did a legal leap and stopped her arm after the release and did not continue with her arm circle. Everything thing she did was legal. The ball fell short of the plate. The HP umpire calls illegal pitch.

The opposing team coach comes out and asks the umpire what was illegal about the pitch. The umpire said it was "Deception." That's why it was illegal. At that point I knew I just got a gift. The other coach went back to the dugout shaking her head and muttering to herself. So now I've got a 2-2 count on my batter with R1 perched on 2nd base.

Other than a hidden ball trick or something of that nature is there something in the FED rules about "Deception" because a pitcher did not use a standard delivery or the delivery she's been using in the game? I'm thinking the difference between a full windmill and a slingshot delivery. While both are different they are legal. To me the pitch the girl threw was a different version of a slingshot pitch.

Rules difference didn't cause this, the umpire just doesn't have a clue and he would have been wrong for either rule set

 

[Sparky Guy]

Rules difference didn't cause this, the umpire just doesn't have a clue and he would have been wrong for either rule set

I was 99.9% sure FED was the same as ASA.

The other team was in the 3rd base dugout and told the coach "Ain't it great when the umpire starts making up his own rules?" She nodded her head and said "Yup, that's a new one on me."

 

[chinamigarden]

Hal ought to have a field day with this isn't his book filled with deceptive tips. I have tried to get my dd to try the half circle delivery as a change of pave thing. But she won't

 

[Ajaywill]

If "deception" was illegal.....nobody could throw a change-up......

 

[GunnerShotgun]

My daughter has mixed in some slingshot pitches in various tournaments and to the umpires credit they have all agreed it's legal.

We have gotten lots of protests from other coaches and fans but the umpires from three different organizations have all agreed it's legal.

During one particular game a group of fans were yelling at the umpire that it was an illegal pitch. The coach for that team (who was coaching third at the time) told them all to be quite and read the rule book, it was a legal pitch.

The more the other team protests, the more we throw the slingshot. It's a source of endless entertainment for us. She has only given up one hit from it in all the times she has thrown it.

Just my experience with it.

 

[cmustangsfp]

We call that pitch the "Texas change up", not sure why, but that is what the girls keep referring to it as. It starts as a release as the arm starts the windmill motion, the pitcher then continues one full revolution. They have never thrown it in a game. Would this pitch be considered legal or "illegal"?

 

[Sparky Guy]

We call that pitch the "Texas change up", not sure why, but that is what the girls keep referring to it as. It starts as a release as the arm starts the windmill motion, the pitcher then continues one full revolution. They have never thrown it in a game. Would this pitch be considered legal or "illegal"?

What you describe is illegal. The arm can not continue around after the ball is released. There can be a follow through, but no complete circle after the release.

 

[Comp]

We call that pitch the "Texas change up", not sure why, but that is what the girls keep referring to it as. It starts as a release as the arm starts the windmill motion, the pitcher then continues one full revolution. They have never thrown it in a game. Would this pitch be considered legal or "illegal"?

Its called an ephus pitch and is illegal. Here is the FED video that shows an example.