crankermo's DD Brooke

[Howe]

I did and I admit that even with some of the supporting info I am behind the curve on understanding the terminology. What I did see was a lot more linear movement of mass forward with the hitter on the right. What did you mean by giving up the back knee?

Hitter on the left keeps his hands and rear knee in the relative location of where they start during the move-out. The hitter on the right takes the hands and rear knee - short circuiting the rear hip stretch - which sets up a weak rhir - relying more-so on momentum than core action.

 

[mann]

Hitter on the left keeps his hands and rear knee in the relative location of where they start during the move-out. The hitter on the right takes the hands and rear knee - short circuiting the rear hip stretch - which sets up a weak rhir - relying more-so on momentum than core action.

I need to get a mental grasp on "rear hip stretch". So when the knee goes, do not let the hands go, yet?
pics.
Only pics, its all I have right now.



If I get this right pics will not show the sequence? because the hands might be unloading with the knee?

 

[redhotcoach]

Mann. Just by bottom pics, they look ok. I see the stretch wrinkles anyway. When I say "coil makes it reactive" I am not trying to be vague or play with words. The coil does just that. Try preset coil, they can advance later, but coil the rear hip around the rear leg in a batting stance. Then tight turn the barrel to the ball. The barrel turn helps keep the hands back, and the stretched coil snap releases sending the rear hip area ahead, that grabs the resisting hands area and launches the barrel.
I mean reactive because if you are coiled, it just all happens when you swing. No thought of driving your knee in. No thought of sending your hips before your hands. Just swing. Sure it takes practice, but if you work on just coil, it can over come a lot of other issues.
Again, my only things we work on is coil and barrel turn. There are several parts of those that we work on, but it all falls under the main subjects of coil, and barrel turn.

Working on it, then video. Get coiled, work on a tight barrel to the ball, then no thought of anything but hit the ball. Video should show the rear leg turning and rear hip ahead of the hands.

 

[FP26]

Again, my only things we work on is coil and barrel turn. There are several parts of those that we work on, but it all falls under the main subjects of coil, and barrel turn.

Working on it, then video. Get coiled, work on a tight barrel to the ball, then no thought of anything but hit the ball. Video should show the rear leg turning and rear hip ahead of the hands.

So, if I understand this correctly, "forward by coil" + hands back due to tight "barrel turn" = "hips before hands"? Or better yet, in place of hips before hands?

 

[redhotcoach]

So, if I understand this correctly, "forward by coil" + hands back due to tight "barrel turn" = "hips before hands"? Or better yet, in place of hips before hands?

I don't believe anyone can think turn hips then hands vs good pitching. The swing has to be reactive.
They are not turning their hips, then swinging the bat:

but with a coiled rear hip, and barrel turn (a correct barrel turn with back muscles), the rear leg/hip get ahead of the hands, pulling the hands and barrel, reactively RIGHT NOW. Not turn your hips then turn your hands.

 

[FP26]

I don't believe anyone can think turn hips then hands vs good pitching. The swing has to be reactive.
They are not turning their hips, then swinging the bat:

but with a coiled rear hip, and barrel turn (a correct barrel turn with back muscles), the rear leg/hip get ahead of the hands, pulling the hands and barrel, reactively RIGHT NOW. Not turn your hips then turn your hands.

Not disagreeing with you, but I find that to be a bit "literal" vs "figurative". One thing I learned tutoring DD and her friends in math is that each learns in different ways and sometimes require different cues or examples in order to comprehend. I don't think hitting is any different in that perspective. When I look at your gifs, what I see is hips-then-hands. Just a matter of perception I suppose.

 

[Eric F]

...each learns in different ways and sometimes require different cues or examples in order to comprehend.

On this, we agree 100%

With certain aspects of the swing, it's been a long and exhaustive search to find a cue/drill/example that connects the dots for my DD. I'm currently on that search related to maintaining the HPP at the rear shoulder.

 

[FP26]

On this, we agree 100%

With certain aspects of the swing, it's been a long and exhaustive search to find a cue/drill/example that connects the dots for my DD. I'm currently on that search related to maintaining the HPP at the rear shoulder.

This was a challenge for my DD as well. At the risk of using terms that may offend someone, she had an issue of taking the hands together with the hips during the swing. I wanted to try to create more "separation" between the upper half and lower half. Eventually the thing that clicked for her is the hand loading performed by Miggy in the gif posted by RedHotCoach. Once she became comfortable with this, separation was accomplished and HPP seemed to take care of itself.

Yes. I use the terms "connection" and "separation", but not to the extent that some others do. Again, these terms seem to make sense to my DD and that is all that matters to me.

 

[knightsb]

On this, we agree 100%

With certain aspects of the swing, it's been a long and exhaustive search to find a cue/drill/example that connects the dots for my DD. I'm currently on that search related to maintaining the HPP at the rear shoulder.

From crankermo:

I'm a firm believer in the rearside being the driver and I'm also a firm believer in the hands controlling the shoulders. As pointed out in the rose colored thread I wasn't happy with Brooke's hand path, it was controlled by the shoulders. We worked on letting the hands take control and it's made a huge difference. All I know is we've tried a lot of different things and the biggest improvements came from the backside being the driver and turning the barrel/letting the hands control the shoulders and elbows. Put the power in the hands and deliver the barrel where it needs to be.

From redhotcoach:

Many many more kids push or drag the barrel with their hands.
Hands load, turn the barrel, resist, activate the scap as the rear leg/hip drives. Move your hands away from that early...that is a push.
Obviously an instructor can say the words "hands in charge" and make sure that the student dosen't push. Just as I can say the shoulder delivers the hands and the hands turn the barrel and direct it to the ball.

I know Howe isn't a fan of the phrase the shoulder delivers the hands, but it helped my DD. As mentioned previously, different ways of describing things resonate better with DD than others.

 

[Howe]

From crankermo:


From redhotcoach:


I know Howe isn't a fan of the phrase the shoulder delivers the hands, but it helped my DD. As mentioned previously, different ways of describing things resonate better with DD than others.

Knightsb, as FP26 said; whatever clicks is good.

When I talk about the hands leading the way, it's more of a description of how we humans see the world - With our eyes and hands. For some, maybe the shoulder cue takes into account that the hand-path is a given. For others, they may take it more literal and deaden the hands, get the shoulder into place, and then throw the hands out.

IDK, I debate this stuff - but realistically - I can't tell you whats right for you. Nobody can.