Coach Won't Let Kid Do What She Can Do

[EP Dad]

*sigh*

Two completely different animals. I'm baselining at what I would expect for a 12 year old and your baselining on what you see from a D1 pitcher? Really? Is that what it's come down to?

She was hitting spots all of last year. She hasn't been the kind of pitcher that walks batters, she can hit the strikezone always has.

So, basically your saying that she should not have been taught these other things and she should go out in the backyard and throw nothing but change-ups and fastballs? Ok, sure. That's the coaches position and seems to be a lot of other folks.

So, maybe that's what this discussion should have been about then. What age do you introduce these other pitches? What skill level? When do you allow them to practice them? When do you allow them to use them in games?

Please enlighten me cause evidently I'm out to lunch and so is her pitching coach.

 

[Lozza]

Two completely different animals. I'm baselining at what I would expect for a 12 year old and your baselining on what you see from a D1 pitcher? Really? Is that what it's come down to?

When your daughter is achieving the same result as a D1 pitcher then yes, that's what it comes down to. She's now throwing as hard as her, but in essence you're saying she's achieved the same result. That is the only time I will compare a 12 year old to a D1 pitcher. When their dad is claiming they've got the same results as they have.

So, maybe that's what this discussion should have been about then. What age do you introduce these other pitches? What skill level? When do you allow them to practice them? When do you allow them to use them in games?

When she's mastered her previous pitches. She hasn't mastered her change-up (which is THE most important pitch she can have at that age) but a drop is a decent second pitch to have. She should be focussing on her change up. Screw ball or curve ball only once they're hitting drops and changes every time.

Should be throwing them in a game when they can hit them 50% of the time. (and that's low compared to what others will say)

 

[EP Dad]

Ridiculous. I never made such a claim. She's 12. And again were at a point where I really just want to give up cause it appears to be all about me making false claims.

Let's see a month ago there was a post about all the 12 year olds in Southern Cal. who throw 60 mph fastballs. If you really think I have some weird agenda here don't you think I should be jumping on that train?

And yeah, colleges are going to be clamoring for that 42 mph drop ball.

I think I'll just concede the season and let her pitch the batting practice again.

 

[Lozza]

Ridiculous. I never made such a claim. She's 12. And again were at a point where I really just want to give up cause it appears to be all about me making false claims.

You've said that in less than a year she's had her pitching motion rebuilt, she's learnt to hit her spots, have a drop ball game ready, have a somewhat OK change-up, but it's a struggle and she's taken like a duck to water to screwball. Kenzie Fowler rebuilt her motion in two months (not six like I originally said sorry) Here's the link So I apologies on that point.

But you see people here all the time make fun of 'crazy daddies' who claim their 12 year old daughter is throwing four/six different pitches. That's what you're claiming.

Go to your meeting tomorrow and have a chat with the coach. But go with lowered expectations. Go with your guard down. Accept that your daughter might not get to do what you want her to do this season. But if she's throwing true screwballs and drops and change-ups that are working some of the time, then have her keep practising. I hope for your hip pocket she is, because I'm wary of any pitching coach who teaches three new pitches in a year to a novice pitcher.

Honestly though, she NEEDS to work on her change-up. There is no point in her learning any other pitch until she has that mastered. That pitch, along with hitting her corners will last her the next two years. If she's throwing true drops that's even better.

Just a question with the change-up, you mention disguise. If she slowing her arm down when she throws it?

 

[EP Dad]

I'm not claiming she throws (4) pitches. I'm claiming she's working on (4) pitches. I don't consider any of them mastered and I never will. All I'm asking for is that she is able to continue working on the pitches she's been taught.

You ever watched a 12U girl that's been told she can't pitch, been pulled for the speedster numerous times, and lost games 23-1 because her infield is incompetent come off the field after striking someone out with her new toy(s)? I have. It's a face I'd like to see again over and over.

By disguise I mean she has a tendency to change her motion when she's not supposed to. Everything should be the same as her fastball except the way the throwing arm comes through, the wrist, and the release.

 

[Lozza]

You ever watched a 12U girl that's been told she can't pitch, been pulled for the speedster numerous times, and lost games 23-1 because her infield is incompetent come off the field after striking someone out with her new toy(s)? I have. It's a face I'd like to see again over and over.

Yup. Gave up pitching for eight years as a result of crap like that.

I'm not claiming she throws (4) pitches. I'm claiming she's working on (4) pitches. I don't consider any of them mastered and I never will. All I'm asking for is that she is able to continue working on the pitches she's been taught.

That's what I think's the problem. How is she supposed to master them when she's throwing four different balls?

How about in your meeting, say to the coach 'I know you want DD to work on her change-up and speed. Her CU is currently not at where her pitching coach, NAME, wants it to be. Her drop ball however is much further along. Can you call that for her and see how she goes in the next game?' If you go in wanting her to throw them all, you're going to lose. Go in with a compromise. Your coach cleary doesn't think she can do what you're saying she can. Offer to have her come down before training, after training or a different game and show him. Invite him to a lesson.

Good luck!

 

[bobbyb]

Epdad…don’t sweat it. Having a smaller dd myself. I understand what your saying…and I don’t see why everyone is questioning your motive…like a crazy daddy.

The fact is…if she is smaller and slower than the bigger girls…she needs to keep the faith in herself and her ability. And to be told she can’t do this or that…when she finally gets something that she feels will benefit her pitching…but isn’t allowed to use it….would be frustrating.

If she is accurate with fb and cu as well as other pitchers at 12u…I don’t see why the coach wouldn’t let her continue her development unless something else is going on.

Do you think the coach is on the sly…talking about speed? You think the coach has already formed opinions on your dd because of her size?

I would want to clarify the meaning…of what “mastering the fb and cu” actually means at 12 u. If she is already accurate to spots…I would be curious. I would want to know at what point…we (coach, dd, PC and myself)… would know when we are at the “mastery” stage that he/she mentioned. That shouldn’t be a question that is in appropriate. The answer can be a goal for your dd.

Personally I think that is the wrong word (mastery) to use for kids learning something at that age but…that’s me. I don’t see a lot of “mastery” at 16 and 18 u and I surely don’t see it at the earlier ages and my dd was/is pretty accurate but mastery…I don’t think so.

If all else fails…have your dd keep pitching batting practice…with the goal of using whatever pitch she needs…to strike out the best hitters on the team. If that doesn’t tell the coach something…then I would have more questions myself. Just approach it in a respectful way and from the stand point that your trying to help your dd improve and understand what the coach wants.

Most of all though…keep helping your dd keep the faith in herself and her hard work. Shrug off the negative and embrace the positives. It will pay off. Good luck!

 

[softballphreak]

EP Dad, don't let all this get to you. You are on the right track as far as lessons and what your DD is accomplishing. The ONLY real issue I see here is you don't seem to be supporting your DD's team nor her coach. You've got to do that--that's the most important thing you can do to help her be the player she needs to be. She will learn the mechanics, no doubt, but the most emphasis should be on sport and what it means to be part of the team. We're a good team or we're a bad team. Me is not a team--we are!

Your DD is going to do fine--with support--from everyone! And everyone else's DD is going to be better--with your support!

 

[EP Dad]

Do you think the coach is on the sly…talking about speed? You think the coach has already formed opinions on your dd because of her size?

Yes, and yes. Her dad (an 18 year coaching vet who is helping his kid out in her first year of coaching) at the initial team meeting fawned over one of the other girls and told her she should pitch. His analysis was only about body type, frame, etc. No one would ever look at my kid and say she's going to be the next Jennie Finch.

That kid by the way is a catcher, not a pitcher. But sure enough the "other" pitcher on the team is muscular and tall and appears to be the coaches pet project.

But, I'm prima donna father for fighting for the kid that put the offseason work in (and can actually throw harder and faster than the pet project as of now anyway) to get her spots.

 

[softballphreak]

Yes, and yes. Her dad (an 18 year coaching vet who is helping his kid out in her first year of coaching) at the initial team meeting fawned over one of the other girls and told her she should pitch. His analysis was only about body type, frame, etc. No one would ever look at my kid and say she's going to be the next Jennie Finch.

That kid by the way is a catcher, not a pitcher. But sure enough the "other" pitcher on the team is muscular and tall and appears to be the coaches pet project.

But, I'm prima donna father for fighting for the kid that put the offseason work in (and can actually throw harder and faster than the pet project as of now anyway) to get her spots.

No matter what anyone's opinions are before the practices and games start the cream will rise to the top. If one can pitch it will come out. If one can hit it will come out. Skills will be exposed before talent but talent with work will win out.