choice of pitches

[sutherlandfinch]

Love the Forum. It's year round snack shack conversation.

My question has more to do with the "why" rather than the " how to" the forum covers so well.

I chart a lot of pitch sequences and am continually amazed at the predictible nature of pitch calling based more on pitchers strengths rather than a batters weakness.

Many times by 8-9 batters in, we can tell a batter what to expect in a given situation. I was hoping to get some insight on the thought proccess used,taught by many of you as to the "why" of the pitch. hope that's clear.

Why do you like pitch X ?

rise,drop,change,screw, curve...and even fastball. What motivates you to call in specific pitches. Are you attacking a weakness? A flaw in the batters mechanics, Sticking with tried and true cliches or exploiting those same cliches because it's what they'd expect? etc.

I know things like situationals and pitching ability is always ( or should be) factored in, so let's just assume, for now, no runners on and your pitcher hits absolutely everything called in. (yeah right)

Thanks

 

[starsnuffer]

Sounds like a lot of teams letting their coach call the pitches instead of the catcher/pitcher team.

At younger ages, I think it's important to pitch to the pitchers strengths. It's very common for the pitcher to just not "have it" for a given pitch in a given day, for whatever reason. While that drop ball might be best for a given batter at a particular place in the count, whoever is calling the pitch might feel that the pitch just isn't working, either it's floating for a fat pitch to hit or it's just no where near the zone.

At older ages and for better pitchers that are in control of their arsenal, here is what I teach my catchers to do:

1.) pay attention to the on deck batter. If she's slotting her swing, IE making the same swing for all of her warmup swings, that's her sweet spot, DON'T pitch there. Chances are you can just pitch this kid fastballs out of her slot and she'll strike out.

2.) pay attention to how the batter stands in the box prior to the first pitch, but even more attention to where the batter is standing at toe touch. This will give an idea if she's weak inside or outside (crowding or too far off). If she's crowding the plate, those outside pitches are in her sweet spot, but she's vulnerable low and inside.

3.) pay attention to how (or if) the batter adjusts after a pitch. Does she just do the same thing and hopes for a better pitch, or does she realize that if she's standing too far off the plate you'll pitch outside to her all day long.

4.) Be cognizant of the the runners on base and how the coach is setting up the infield. Drop balls are great for forcing ground-outs and rise-balls are great for forcing fly outs (good idea if a fast runner on 1st is getting a big lead). Trust your defense (or don't trust them if they're bad).

Other then that, I leave it to the catcher. She knows which pitches are hitting their spots and will mix it up. Girls are much more random then their old bucketbutt coaches.

-W

 

[Ken Krause]

It's an art, to be sure. There are some things that tend to be obvious -- for example throwing a changeup after a foul straight back on a fast pitch, or a heavily pulled ball -- but most of the time for me it's the cat and mouse game.

When I call pitches, sometimes I get real proud of myself for taking the bats out of the other teams hitters' hands. Then I remember I just outsmarted a 14 year old and it gives me some perspective.

I like doing it, but it doesn't do the catchers any good so I try to teach them. They often lack the experience of really mixing things up and can easily fall into patterns, so you have to work with them. Tell them it's ok to throw two changeups in a row -- or even three. Sometimes you throw the change for a ball so another pitch looks faster. A curve - a real curve -- is great when you're ahead in the count 0-2 and you want to throw a ball that looks like a strike. But a rise/high fastball on a girl who drops her hands can work pretty well too. If you mix the two you become less predictable.

One thing I think catchers tend to do is remember what pitches are working for the pitcher -- both in terms of what the ball should do and what it's doing to the hitter -- and they ride 'em till they buck them.

To me it's like the other team stealing signs. If they steal my signs and are able to get us out a result, I change. If they steal my signs but can't get us out anyway, what do I care?

 

[Coach Beck]

I always call pitches to the weakness of the batter, in high school ball anyway. I also talk to my pitcher and catcher so they understand why I called those pitches. While I'm calling pitches, I have the other pitchers beside me so I can explain to them why I called that pitch. All the while setting the defense for that pitch.
The conference we play in just happens to have the #1 ranked team in the nation (was at the end of the season) and is very competetive. You do have to use the strength of the pitcher, just not to the point the other team is going to take pitches to get to the that pitch.
If I know the pitcher is going to bring a change up on a 1-1 count my girls aer going to wait on that 1-1 pitch.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I always loved it when my DD was pitching and the coach had the girls take the 1st pitch.

They might as well just start the at bat, 0-1.

You can pick that up after the second batter.

I could even yell at my DD "Down the pike!" and the opposing coach, had no idea that he was starting all of his batters off with a strike. I don't know why coaches do that.

 

[Coach Beck]

I always loved it when my DD was pitching and the coach had the girls take the 1st pitch.

They might as well just start the at bat, 0-1.

You can pick that up after the second batter.

I could even yell at my DD "Down the pike!" and the opposing coach, had no idea that he was starting all of his batters off with a strike. I don't know why coaches do that.

Me either!

 

[Jojo]

I always loved it when my DD was pitching and the coach had the girls take the 1st pitch.

They might as well just start the at bat, 0-1.

You can pick that up after the second batter.

I could even yell at my DD "Down the pike!" and the opposing coach, had no idea that he was starting all of his batters off with a strike. I don't know why coaches do that.

Me too, I've even heard them say, "Take a look". So you know they are sitting on that pitch.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Sounds like a lot of teams letting their coach call the pitches instead of the catcher/pitcher team.

At younger ages, I think it's important to pitch to the pitchers strengths. It's very common for the pitcher to just not "have it" for a given pitch in a given day, for whatever reason. While that drop ball might be best for a given batter at a particular place in the count, whoever is calling the pitch might feel that the pitch just isn't working, either it's floating for a fat pitch to hit or it's just no where near the zone.

At older ages and for better pitchers that are in control of their arsenal, here is what I teach my catchers to do:

1.) pay attention to the on deck batter. If she's slotting her swing, IE making the same swing for all of her warmup swings, that's her sweet spot, DON'T pitch there. Chances are you can just pitch this kid fastballs out of her slot and she'll strike out.

2.) pay attention to how the batter stands in the box prior to the first pitch, but even more attention to where the batter is standing at toe touch. This will give an idea if she's weak inside or outside (crowding or too far off). If she's crowding the plate, those outside pitches are in her sweet spot, but she's vulnerable low and inside.

3.) pay attention to how (or if) the batter adjusts after a pitch. Does she just do the same thing and hopes for a better pitch, or does she realize that if she's standing too far off the plate you'll pitch outside to her all day long.

4.) Be cognizant of the the runners on base and how the coach is setting up the infield. Drop balls are great for forcing ground-outs and rise-balls are great for forcing fly outs (good idea if a fast runner on 1st is getting a big lead). Trust your defense (or don't trust them if they're bad).

Other then that, I leave it to the catcher. She knows which pitches are hitting their spots and will mix it up. Girls are much more random then their old bucketbutt coaches.

-W

What W said. Having sat behind the plate and on the bucket, I know that the catcher sees much more than the coach. Teach your catchers the why and let them work directly with the pitcher during the inning. Even if a coach has made a life history of each batter's strengths and weaknesses, they're better off giving that info to the catcher to make the calls. Sequences are limitless - conventional, opposite, random and subject to change on a pitch-by-pitch basis so there's a real problem if you can predict more than 1 pitch in advance. If you really want to mess with a batter's head, have the catcher tell the batter what pitch is coming every so often and then have them complain that the pitcher crossed them up when it wasn't that pitch!

 

[chinamigarden]

I always loved it when my DD was pitching and the coach had the girls take the 1st pitch.

They might as well just start the at bat, 0-1.

You can pick that up after the second batter.

I could even yell at my DD "Down the pike!" and the opposing coach, had no idea that he was starting all of his batters off with a strike. I don't know why coaches do that.

Because in Ted Williams book on hitting he advocated taking the first pitch no matter what. Of course a couple of times a year Ted would hit a home run on the 1st pitch just to keep the pitcher honest.

 

[sutherlandfinch]

great start

Great start!

Ken's response is more along the lines of what i was looking to talk about.

For lack of a better term.....practical application.

But with that, I too enjoy an over eager father yelling through the backstop " 0-2 watch for the change up" and then throw his hands in the air as she watches anything but a change up go by. K