Blatant cheating USSSA tournament. thoughts?

[Rambler34]

In summer of 2019 we were playing a few TC events which supplied their own balls. The balls weren't travelling very far and they had kind of a mushy sound when it came off the bat. When the ball comes off a ghost bat there is a distinct CRACK sound. You know what I mean. It sounds so goooood. I don't remember who I was talking to, but they said TC purchased a large qty of balls and they were being stored in a hot warehouse...allegedly. They were nearing the end of the supply of that lot of balls. I don't know if this is true or even possible, but all I know is those balls were not coming off those bats like they should.

Every single TC event we played had these balls. It is even both ways but they were horrible.

 

[Quigs10]

In summer of 2019 we were playing a few TC events which supplied their own balls. The balls weren't travelling very far and they had kind of a mushy sound when it came off the bat. When the ball comes off a ghost bat there is a distinct CRACK sound. You know what I mean. It sounds so goooood. I don't remember who I was talking to, but they said TC purchased a large qty of balls and they were being stored in a hot warehouse...allegedly. They were nearing the end of the supply of that lot of balls. I don't know if this is true or even possible, but all I know is those balls were not coming off those bats like they should.

My DD 12u TB team just played a team that we suspected of using old, watered down mush balls. For Covid, sometimes teams like to use their own balls to keep risks a bit lower I guess. Well when we pitched with our bright yellow Dream Seams the ball sounded normal off their bats with a higher pitched "crack". But when they pitched they used their own and they were a dull yellow and not one ball was ever hit with the same "crack" sound. Everything sounded like a "thud" muffled sound.

So, after the 2nd inning and EVERYONE on our side noticing this, our coach went up to umpire to ask him about the ball and why we think something was up with it and the umpire literally took 5 secs and wiggled the ball around and looked at it and gave it back to the pitcher.

Nothing done.

How about, even if he couldn't "prove" it MIGHT be doctored...how about just say, "Coaches, home plate....each of you give me 2 WRAPPED NEW balls right now, and I'll mark them and we'll only use those new balls that I just saw you unwrap." Would have ended any question about anything going on.

12u!!?? This was an Ohana Tiger Team out here in So Calif at some random no name tournament and they are using shitty old water logged balls to gain an advantage.

 

[BobM4]

So my DD played a USSSA tournament in OKC this last weekend. We were playing in a 14u "B" tournament that had a couple of 13O teams (basically they're 14u A teams that are playing down in 14B but that's a whole different story...
Anyway so we're playing a very good team in Gold Bracket play and they keep swapping balls in the middle of at bats. It wasn't wet in the slightest so we thought it was pretty strange to keep switching balls. After the 3rd time it happened we became suspicious and after a foul ball was hit over our dugout, one of our coaches retrieved the ball and was just about to put it back in play when they realized that there was a HOLE in the ball. This team had apparently taken a ball, cut the outer layer, hollowed out a good thumb sized hole and then glued the seam back down(obviously to help spin the ball). So with this new knowledge the next time they tried to swap it out our coach objected and after a lengthly plate meeting, the umpire threw the ball back to them and told them to not use it... No penalty whatsoever. We ended up losing the game by a couple of runs.

But the story doesn't end there... since we were all at the same set of fields, we had a chance to keep an eye on this team. They continued to use this gaf ball when the pitcher asked for it. We finally had enough and played tattle tale to a team they were about to play. The coaches of the team were very thankful for the heads up and watched them closely. And guess what. THEY TRIED IT AGAIN ! and the result? The umpire STILL DID NOTHING BUT TELL THEM TO NOT USE THE BALL! Needless to say we were thrilled when the team we informed beat them out of the tournament.

We were surprised they were allowed to keep the ball and continue to try and use it. It was BLATANT cheating (no different in our eyes from illegal bats, playing aged out players, etc) We could not believe there were ZERO PENALTIES for repeatedly trying to cheat the integrity of the game!

What are your thoughts on this? Have any of you run into something like this before? How would you have handled it?

thanks!

My pretend self would understand that in the big scheme of things CHEATERS NEVER WIN. And I would calmly let it slide as I know most of those 14U girls are going to grow up and be great people regardless of their misguided leadership. My real self would have gone ballistic and have been escorted out of the park for the profanity I would have let loose on the umpire and team that was cheating. Coaches and organization should be banned from USSSA for life.

 

[docnsx01]

Shoot.. I was hoping you made it a bit more difficult than that

That team is definitely not a 14U A team though. They wouldn’t beat (and haven’t) the better 12U teams in the state.

Edit: Unless that team has improved a bunch since last year..which I suppose is possible.

When you attempt to cheat then you could say your better lol

 

[_MIA_]

When you attempt to cheat then you could say your better lol

DD's team played in a tournament with this team this past weekend. They didn't get a chance to play them though because if they had I would have hightailed it from my office, sprinted into the complex and started yelling "Hole in the ball, HOLE IN THE BALL!!"

DD's average 12U B team ended up in 4th place in that tournament...Team Hole in the Ball ended up 9th....

 

[RIZZARIJOE]

So my DD played a USSSA tournament in OKC this last weekend. We were playing in a 14u "B" tournament that had a couple of 13O teams (basically they're 14u A teams that are playing down in 14B but that's a whole different story...
Anyway so we're playing a very good team in Gold Bracket play and they keep swapping balls in the middle of at bats. It wasn't wet in the slightest so we thought it was pretty strange to keep switching balls. After the 3rd time it happened we became suspicious and after a foul ball was hit over our dugout, one of our coaches retrieved the ball and was just about to put it back in play when they realized that there was a HOLE in the ball. This team had apparently taken a ball, cut the outer layer, hollowed out a good thumb sized hole and then glued the seam back down(obviously to help spin the ball). So with this new knowledge the next time they tried to swap it out our coach objected and after a lengthly plate meeting, the umpire threw the ball back to them and told them to not use it... No penalty whatsoever. We ended up losing the game by a couple of runs.

But the story doesn't end there... since we were all at the same set of fields, we had a chance to keep an eye on this team. They continued to use this gaf ball when the pitcher asked for it. We finally had enough and played tattle tale to a team they were about to play. The coaches of the team were very thankful for the heads up and watched them closely. And guess what. THEY TRIED IT AGAIN ! and the result? The umpire STILL DID NOTHING BUT TELL THEM TO NOT USE THE BALL! Needless to say we were thrilled when the team we informed beat them out of the tournament.

We were surprised they were allowed to keep the ball and continue to try and use it. It was BLATANT cheating (no different in our eyes from illegal bats, playing aged out players, etc) We could not believe there were ZERO PENALTIES for repeatedly trying to cheat the integrity of the game!

What are your thoughts on this? Have any of you run into something like this before? How would you have handled it?

thanks!

As an umpire myself, why are the balls being thrown in by any team - that should be the province of the umpire? At the start of the game, we usually have two new game balls that are supplied to us by the UIC or tournament officials. That way, there isn't a risk of a doctored ball or the influx of non-approved or non-sanctioned balls. The umpire needs to control the situation from the beginning. At the start of the game, the umpire usually throws in the new game ball, and if that's hit foul, he throws another one in. But the umpire controls the balls. He should never let a coach throw in a ball that hasn't been inspected or approved by the umpire.

 

[quincy]

Covina virus protocols opened the door to this cheating.

You are right under normal circumstances.

 

[Rolling Hard]

Ump needs a little digital scale. The water logged balls will weigh more than a fresh ball.

 

[flash277]

Covina virus protocols opened the door to this cheating.

You are right under normal circumstances.

Right! As a school umpire, we got our marching orders saying that the home team provides all the balls and we never hold them. I suppose we can check them if requested, otherwise no ball management for us.

 

[Menhusen]

I spoke to UIC about this tonight. He said the ball was gashed but from his opinion it was caused from foul ball making contacted with other structures and didn’t not seem to be altered. He made the team replace it with a new game all because it’s against rules to have the exterior of ball damages beyond normal wear. The team agreed that the pitcher grabbed a practice ball and not the game ball. He said if it was proven or thought in his judgment that the ball was purposefully altered he would have eject coach from the game with no warning according to rules. Just info from him. Take it or leave it.

Also not to sound rude but the team you speak of is a “C” level team playing “B” level on their better days. Far from an “A” team if you truly know the “A” teams in this area. Again take it or leave it. Just my 2 cents.


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