Biases in All Star Selections Park Ball

[24softballmom]

Having a discussion with a friend regarding park ball. When selecting allstars, should coaches kids get an automatic vote? Also, should you pick an older, bigger girl with less experience and less talent over a younger, smaller girl with more experience, better form, and better skill? Thoughts???

 

[CobraAssist]

Coaches kids getting an automatic vote? What sort of douchebaggery is this? Granted, with All-Star teams, there are always going to be coaches kids that get on the team that shouldn't. When I was 12, we lost a State Semifinal game because of a coaches kid that shouldn't have been on the team, so I TOTALLY get irritated with that whole thing. And, just because some kid is big, and every once in a while, they hit one hard, doesn't matter. A small kid that puts the ball in play, hustles, and has good fundamentals would make my all-star team over a TREE anyday.

 

[LAdad]

The kids of every coach in the league? That's ridiculous. Or just the kid of the all-star head coach? The latter is common; usually the league makes sure to pick an all-star coach whose kid would be a shoo-in anyway.

You should pick the best players, those that are most effective in the game. Not only is that best for your team, but all-stars is also a recognition of how they've played during the regular season. Less experience and less skill really doesn't have much to recommend itself. 'Form' doesn't really matter either: fortunately there are no style points in softball.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

It is quite common that every coaches' kid makes the All Stars. Generally, they are the better players. It was that way 15 years ago in IL., too. Should it be that way? Only if they would make it, if mom and dad were not coaching.

And yes, often a 12 yo will make it over an 11 yo. I don't agree with that, but I see it time and again.

I spent Sunday on the phone with 3 parents listening to how unfair the AllStar picks were. All I could do was agree.

 

[obbay]

In the recent past I've seen LL all-stars (in my area) as another form of daddyball. all players vote for 9 kids, none of which are on their team. Coaches pick 10 and can pick from their own team. That said, All-star coaches kids and their friends and kids of the coaches friends still have the inside track.

This year we just did the voting (passing in ballots tonight) and I'm optimistic that we should get a good team. We looked at the ballots our girls passed in and the voting was wacky! a lot of girls voted for a big 12 yo just because she can hit the ball far once in awhile. that and she's big. some girls wouldn't vote for girls because they didn't like them or because they were good players and they hated to see them recognized. the good news is that all the coaches DDs are good.

About 4 years ago when DD#1 was in All-stars for the first time, two girls (catchers) who should've been on the team were not. One of the girls who did not deserve to be there was a weak catcher and a worse hitter. she played the whole game every game and was terrible. 2 of the 3 coaches DD's had no right being there as well as a couple of their friends.

It was horrendous! I hate all-stars, but I've got to let them have the experience.

 

[Dusty]

I remember my last year in rec our league had always picked all-stars by coach recommendation only. I pushed to implement a tryout system where all the coaches evaluated players and as many coaches as possible from other age divisions who didn't have vested interest in who made it did the evaluations.

The selection was easy that year as I had exactly 12 kids try out. I left for travel the next year but I heard the league kept the tryout format and had much larger turnouts in the years since.

 

[24softballmom]

The kids of every coach in the league? That's ridiculous. Or just the kid of the all-star head coach? The latter is common; usually the league makes sure to pick an all-star coach whose kid would be a shoo-in anyway.

You should pick the best players, those that are most effective in the game. Not only is that best for your team, but all-stars is also a recognition of how they've played during the regular season. Less experience and less skill really doesn't have much to recommend itself. 'Form' doesn't really matter either: fortunately there are no style points in softball.

Yes 11 out of the 12 players picked were coaches or asst coaches kids. Also when I said form I was referring to batting, as in a girl who was picked chops, steps all over the plate, and lets the bat swing her around and has struck out several more times that a kids who wasnt picked, has great form, and a better batting average.

 

[Lozza]

Having a discussion with a friend regarding park ball. When selecting allstars, should coaches kids get an automatic vote? Also, should you pick an older, bigger girl with less experience and less talent over a younger, smaller girl with more experience, better form, and better skill? Thoughts???

What? That is so illogical it's not funny.

If coaches kids are good enough then they should be in. But automatically? No, no, no. I remember for U12 the selectors didn't show up so my dad and a friend's mum were roped into doing the selection. They immeaditly agreed that my dad would put down friends daughter and friend's mum would put down me. (we were going to make it regardless, we were the only pitchers trying out!) They wanted to be seen to be as fair as possible.

And I really don't understand why an older girl who is not as good a player as the younger girl should get in. Best players only. Only time I ever see age come into it over here is for school girls. They have a rule that if the decision is between a Year 12 girl and a younger girl, then older girl gets in. But if younger girl is better then that is irrelevant.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Lozza, you are right, but it is not the way that it turns out. Many times we should call the team Coaches Kids. When I first went back into coaching, my son was 10. He was an OK pitcher, but I selected 2 other boys to AllStars. Even the parents on my team thought that I was nuts. I had no intention of putting my son ahead of other little boys that were better.

After that, the other coaches (men, but I don't think that mattered) told me that we would be practicing year around, with 10 kids at "open gym." We knew who 90% of next year's All Stars would be in October. We did make it pretty far, with that team. Now, when I watch the boys play on TV, I am reminded of that (and it has been 15 years) and I doubt that any team gets past regionals with a fair pick of AllStars. But most parents don't know that.

 

[PA SB Dad]

As long as parents and parent-coaches are involved in the process, there will always be bias. Part of it is because parents aren't always objective about their own kid (this forum is full of examples!). Some bias is due in part to direct parental involvement in the league - I personally think that the volunteer hours that parent-coaches put in should in some (small) way benefit their kids. If you can objectively pick the 12 best players, and none of their parents are willing to be coaches, what good does it do you to be "completely" fair? And as some have already said, usually the coaches kids tend to be the better players - there is a self-selcting system in place in which the better players parents are going to want to be involved and push their kids to excel. You can try to be as fair as you want, but there is always inherent bias in any system you create, and someone who always feel like they got shafted (look at MLB every year!).

I think where things can also get out of hand is regarding playing time on these all star teams. Little League mandates minimum playing time (one at bat and 3 consecutive defensive outs) for every rostered player. No guaranteed playing time beyond that. I've seen plenty of examples where the coaches kids in all stars never sit, whereas better players play the minimum. It comes with the territory - sometimes you get good coaches that get it right, and others that do not. And even those that get it right will still be criticized for overlooking someone else's kid. JMHO.