Batted Ball Distance

[JJsqueeze]

here you go. Of the various folks that study this (there is kind of a consortium of Physics professors that love to study this stuff) this guys work is the most accessible to a non physicist, but these results have been duplicated by at least 4 separate studies to my knowledge. To give you an idea of how much agreement there is on thi-if you walked up to a professor of physics who studied this type of stuff and told him the hands play a role after contact is initiated it would literally be like walking up to a doctor and telling him you believe that leeches are a great way of solving all medical conditions or telling a chemist that you can spin straw into gold.

Does it matter how tightly you Grip the Bat?

 

[petricca413]

I'm late to the game with this discussion, but here is my opinion. If Hitter #2 indeed has bat speed of 70+ mph, then she is likely finishing her swing properly (high and away from her body). Hitters with low bat speed for their age/level typically have poor bat paths before and after contact which causes them to actually slow their swings in order to finish in the undesirable position. For example, I always shake my head when I see softball players on deck slapping the bat on their arm at the end of the swing. Not only does that look painful, it is indicative of a poor swing. I contend that hitters who finish the swing by manually changing the path of the bat (like arm slappers), actually have to slow the bat down BEFORE impact to finish in that odd position. The advice I give to my hitters is to "let the bat finish where IT wants to finish, not where YOU want it to finish. Hitter #2 likely does this.

 

[Stever]

JJ, interesting article, still wondering if it totally correlates to what were talking about. I wish the test was done with a moving bat during collision, with different grips. Also, include the stop at collision swing and sustained speed through collision swing.

I am sure the truth lies in between both point of views.


Edit: Frazier's, perhaps one handed homerun, is amazing first off. Although this cannot be optimal contact position, he was fortunate to have the bat at that angle (near extension), bottom hand perhaps still on the bat, and favorable HR conditions (they mentioned 9 HR's in that game).

 

[JJsqueeze]

JJ, interesting article, still wondering if it totally correlates to what were talking about. I wish the test was done with a moving bat during collision, with different grips. Also, include the stop at collision swing and sustained speed through collision swing.

I am sure the truth lies in between both point of views.


Edit: Frazier's, perhaps one handed homerun, is amazing first off. Although this cannot be optimal contact position, he was fortunate to have the bat at that angle (near extension), bottom hand perhaps still on the bat, and favorable HR conditions (they mentioned 9 HR's in that game).

These are not two opposing points of view on say, which is a better band, the Stones or the Beatles. This is scientific fact vs. gut feel. This is Galileo vs. The Vatican....the truth does not lie somewhere between...2+2 is not a matter of opinion....and that is what this is. I know it is hard to go against your belief system, but holding onto superstition in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence doesn't mean you are committed, it just means you are a Texan.

 

[mann]

My guess that the sharp drop is caused by impact, but I would like to see a chart with no impact, just the dry swing.

You say that there is no, none, maintained max speed, and to ideally reach and start losing it before contact.

I agree with JJ on the distance the max speed of about a foot, but that number is also just a guess.

I like how you are saying zepp is wrong, along with all its reps, zepp would like contact to be at max speed.

now here is the kicker, since impact causes this sharp drop, and max bat speed should be at impact, it would be hard to tell if the bat is still accelerating at impact, because of impact.

in bold true statement?

and I am going outside with a demarini 33 drop 10, and hang it by a string. and then attach it down tight. I cannot imagine the ball will recoil the same.

 

[Greenmonsters]

JJ, interesting article, still wondering if it totally correlates to what were talking about. I wish the test was done with a moving bat during collision, with different grips. Also, include the stop at collision swing and sustained speed through collision swing.

I am sure the truth lies in between both point of views.


Edit: Frazier's, perhaps one handed homerun, is amazing first off. Although this cannot be optimal contact position, he was fortunate to have the bat at that angle (near extension), bottom hand perhaps still on the bat, and favorable HR conditions (they mentioned 9 HR's in that game).

If you're open-minded and up for more reading, below is an excerpt from an interview w/ Dr. Nathan (aka pobguy on DFP) found at this link An Interview With Dr. Alan Nathan: Baseball Physicist



Question; "....Batter strength and bat speed play heavily into a home run, of course. But how much? Can minimal power be made up for with perfect contact and trajectory off the bat? Conversely, how far will raw power cover the variation in contact and trajectory in a home run? What is the balance of power vs form?..."

Answer: "...That's an interesting question and I am not sure I have a definitive answer for you. For sure, bat speed matters a lot. For a perfectly squared-up collision with the ball, bat speed is the single most important factor that determines the speed of the ball off the bat, which in turn determines how far a long fly ball with travel. But squaring up is not such an easy task.

Not only does the timing have to be right (i.e., not too far in front or behind) but the "aim" has to be right also in order to hit the ball squarely. I am guessing that the harder a batter swings, the more difficulty he will have with the aim. Probably that is one reason why batters who hit the ball hard consistently also strike out a lot. So there are tradeoffs between speed and accuracy. And that is where technique comes into play. But that strays way beyond my expertise......"

Dr. Nathan's "Physics of Baseball" website has lot's more info and research links. I was enlightened by the knuckleball stuff. The Physics of Baseball

 

[Stever]

These are not two opposing points of view on say, which is a better band, the Stones or the Beatles. This is scientific fact vs. gut feel. This is Galileo vs. The Vatican....the truth does not lie somewhere between...2+2 is not a matter of opinion....and that is what this is. I know it is hard to go against your belief system, but holding onto superstition in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence doesn't mean you are committed, it just means you are a Texan.

Someone mentioned if a batter swings and misses the ball the top bat speed may last 12". No data on this, but it seems reasonable. If this is the case, I say the bat should collide at about the 3" mark and have another 9" of being in the strongest position and path.

My wife works with a bunch of engineers, I occasionally have lunch with them all..... I don't like them either

 

[Stever]

If you're open-minded and up for more reading, below is an excerpt from an interview w/ Dr. Nathan (aka pobguy on DFP) found at this link An Interview With Dr. Alan Nathan: Baseball Physicist



Question; "....Batter strength and bat speed play heavily into a home run, of course. But how much? Can minimal power be made up for with perfect contact and trajectory off the bat? Conversely, how far will raw power cover the variation in contact and trajectory in a home run? What is the balance of power vs form?..."

Answer: "...That's an interesting question and I am not sure I have a definitive answer for you. For sure, bat speed matters a lot. For a perfectly squared-up collision with the ball, bat speed is the single most important factor that determines the speed of the ball off the bat, which in turn determines how far a long fly ball with travel. But squaring up is not such an easy task.

Not only does the timing have to be right (i.e., not too far in front or behind) but the "aim" has to be right also in order to hit the ball squarely. I am guessing that the harder a batter swings, the more difficulty he will have with the aim. Probably that is one reason why batters who hit the ball hard consistently also strike out a lot. So there are tradeoffs between speed and accuracy. And that is where technique comes into play. But that strays way beyond my expertise......"

Dr. Nathan's "Physics of Baseball" website has lot's more info and research links. I was enlightened by the knuckleball stuff. The Physics of Baseball

Obviously form or mechanics is huge, most often a player can gain power/distance by making mechanical changes over gaining in batspeed alone.

I do work with a ton of kids. The game has gotten more competitive over the last five years, with more and more talent and the same amount of scholarships available. I enlighten the kids that they are either rabbits or rhinos. Rabbits run and Rhinos need to hit for power, there is less and less room for the average base hitter......so..... teaching to hit with power is vital to the rhinos.....I started this thread for my benefit as a teacher, I have not ruled anything out that anyone said, just still believe the mechanics of, or the acceleration of the bat head, must go right through the ball - even though I know the collision will dramatically slow the bat.

 

[mann]

ok, te results of my backyard experiment.

I hung the 33 drop ten cf5 from a string. I finally got one to square off in the sweet spot, and to my surprise, it went 55 feet in the short grass.
I then secured the bat and after I squared on off the sweet spot, it traveled 55 feet in the short grass.

The difference that I noticed that balls that were not squared up with bat held by the string, deflected badly, along with the bat.
The secured bat handled the not quite squared up balls in a way different matter, resulting in harder hit balls, than the string held bat.

so if you hit the bat off the(away from) sweet spot, best have a hold on it.

and still looking for a zepp swing chart with no contact. I love the idea off hitting the ball at 3inches of your 12 inch max bat speed zone, stever (based on the 12 inch max speed zone estimate pulled out our butts)

 

[ian]

So the bat on a string gets bowled over like bowling pin and a clamped bat doesnt. Thats simple enough. Things get a little more complicated when the bat is in motion. In conclusion Newtons third law is irrelevant on ball distance because the ball is allllll ready gone..

The no hands homerun is cool. The bat went 60+ feet! 1 question, how far would the bat go if he swung and missed the ball?