Bat out of Hands

[SoulFY]

From reading what happen, seems like a play on as the pitcher wasnt fielding the ball and the thrown bat didnt interfere with the defense. At most this would be like stated, a team warning for carelessly throwing the bat. Next time it would happen it would be restrictions to the dugout. Treat it like if the batter tossed the bat and it hit the catcher or plate umpire. Team warning as this is very dangerous.

Atleast how you would handle it with NFHS rules as it was High School

 

[cncsoftball]

NFHS Rule 7.4.14 The batter is out when: The batter throws her bat and interferes with a defensive player attempting a play. NOTE: If the bat breaks and a portion is hit by the ball or his a runner or fielder, no infraction has occurred.

PENALTY: The ball is dead immediately and runners return to the last bae touched at the time of the interference.

Thank you!

 

[cncsoftball]

From reading what happen, seems like a play on as the pitcher wasnt fielding the ball and the thrown bat didnt interfere with the defense. At most this would be like stated, a team warning for carelessly throwing the bat. Next time it would happen it would be restrictions to the dugout. Treat it like if the batter tossed the bat and it hit the catcher or plate umpire. Team warning as this is very dangerous.

Atleast how you would handle it with NFHS rules as it was High School

Thanks!

 

[Big Daddy Michigan]

In general is there a difference between "restricted to the dugout" and ejected? In Michigan (unless the rule has changed), an ejection was for that date and the next game date.

So if your team was warned and you accidentally let the bat slip out of your hand in game one of a double header you could sit 4 games?

 

[Crabby_Bob]

Big difference between restricted and ejected. Ejection often carries a one game suspension, more for subsequent ejections in the same season, up to suspension for the remainder of the season.

ETA: restriction is for the remainder of the game, not the day, by rule.

 

[SoulFY]

In general is there a difference between "restricted to the dugout" and ejected? In Michigan (unless the rule has changed), an ejection was for that date and the next game date.

So if your team was warned and you accidentally let the bat slip out of your hand in game one of a double header you could sit 4 games?

Yes there is a big difference. Main one being if a coach is ejected, they are not allowed to be in the dugout or complex. They must leave entirely. When a coach gets restricted to the dugout they are still allowed to coach their team but just are not allowed to be on the field of play.

Usually when a coach gets ejected, their are other punishments with the district or state office. They might have to sit out a game or be placed on probation. Depends state to state.

 

[EdLovrich]

Yes, big difference and yes in MI it could cost a player/coach 4 games (same day and next day of competition). One reason I am thankful for bench restriction being a thing (that and there is no paperwork involved!!).

Seriously though, I wish they (MHSAA) would give us some input after the fact as to whether an ejection was for severe sportsmanship issues or due to rule book language. Example: Last week I was working a baseball game, second inning the catcher turns to me and asks if the other team was allowed to steal signals (runner on second was relaying them in to the batter). I replied, "There is no rule against what he is doing." Next time that batter came up, the team had changed pitchers, catcher sets up WAY inside (batter's box way inside). Sure enough fastball that the batter just manages to avoid. Ball 1, time, warnings issued. (HC did not even flinch at the warning, read into that what you will). 2 fastballs outer half and 2 hanging curves that started inside and shoulder high, we have a 3-2 count. Pay-off pitch is a fastball 2 feet behind the batter. (Sigh, what is an umpire to do). Rule book does not allow me to restrict the pitcher after warnings have been issued, pitcher SHALL be ejected, along with coach.

Was that last pitch purposeful? I don't believe so. The remainder of that game would have been enough. Basketball has technical fouls, football has 15 yd unsportsmanlike flags. BB and SB mandate ejections in several cases. TLDR; the ejection was out of my hands, but given the chance for input, I would have said in this case 2 and a half games was excessive.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Ehhh ... Without a definition of "thrown bat" you are subject to an umpire's interpretation as to what that means.

To me, thrown implies a deliberate action. Unless there is cause for me to reasonably believe that the bat was intentionally thrown (as opposed to slipped), I'm not going down that road.

Two feet behind the batter on a 3-2 pitch? I'm not feeling the love for your call on that one. I think you were golden up to that point.

 

[EdLovrich]

Unless there is cause for me to reasonably believe that the bat was intentionally thrown (as opposed to slipped), I'm not going down that road.

So, if a bat slips form the batter's hands and interferes with a fielder attempting to make a play you would have nothing? That, it seems, opens more cans of worms than saying that a bat that does not "drop" must have been "thrown"

Two feet behind the batter on a 3-2 pitch? I'm not feeling the love for your call on that one. I think you were golden up to that point.

Perhaps. but if I didn't follow up on the warning that had already been issued, what do I do when the opposing pitcher throws "near" a batter? I hate putting out warnings, but as you seem to agree, one was needed in this case. Once the warning is out, it needs to be followed up on or you lose all game management. (And 2 feet may have been an embellishment, but the pitch was well behind the batter)

 

[The Man In Blue]

I have interference then ... if the rule set allows it. Keep in mind, some rule sets still have intent written into interference. However, I didn't mean to speak so much to the interference aspect, I was referring to the calls for a player-specific penalty.

As for the pitch behind the batter, I fully understand your position and I'm not saying you are wrong -- that is completely a judgment on your part as the one who was there and calling the game. Again, maybe I spoke too broadly ... my point was even when a game is going down the behavior crapper, not every action is deliberate. I wasn't there, so I don't have all the "X" factors. I would encourage umpires to push their thinking a bit. Even we get caught in those traps of having a specific mindset. IMO, a 3-2 pitch that goes 2 feet behind a batter is likely not intentional regardless of what else has happened (even in varsity). Anything up to that point and I am more likely to believe intent.

Like I said, I really like the way you handled it though! You listened to the catcher, you provided a good explanation, you were alert to what was happening next, and you quickly addressed it.

One of the best pieces of advice I was given early on ... Let the game come to you. Don't go looking for things to call.