At what point does it become obstruction?

[obbay]

BR stealing 2B, SS receives the throw with both feet on the baseline between 1B and 2B. (small)Runner slides into her and is so far from the base her legs don't reach and is tagged out.

On a throw down, the ball is in the air right away so the fielder is making the catch no matter where she happens to be. I'm just not sure when/if it becomes obstruction.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I'd have to have seen the play to be sure, but obstruction only occurs when a defender does not have the ball or is not going for the ball and is in the way of a runner and contact occurs. For example, if that SS (without the ball) was standing in front of 2nd base as a runner was trying to touch it and go to 3rd and your runner made contact with her, you'd have obstruction. If your runner stops and tries to go around the SS, then no obstruction.

Pretty much if a defender has the ball or is going for the ball, obstruction will not be called. The defender has a right to make a play and can block the base completely if she has ball and she may go into the runner's path to get a ball without penalty.

On my 10U team, there are a couple of teams we play fairly regularly that teach their girls that if they are away from the play (for example, a 3rd baseman on a ball hit to right field), they need to block the path of runners trying to go to their base and beyond. In this scenario, let's say a runner is on second and our girls get a base hit to right field, the 3rd baseman will immediately position herself right in front of third base directly in the path of the runner coming from second. They teach this because they realize 10 year old girls will not normally run into another girl so as long as the runner stops and goes around the player, it is not obstruction. It took me about 15 games or so to finally get one of my girls to make contact with one of their girls, and it was actually on a play where I would have held the girl anyway but I had her round third after the play then held her at last second when the throw went home. After the play was over, I called timeout and approached the base umpire, who did not see the obstruction, and asked him to call it (it is his call) or to confer with the home plate ump (who did plainly see it) if he was unsure. He elected to confer with the plate ump and within about 10 seconds, he motioned for my girl and awarded her home plate for the obstruction. The other coach was pissed that we finally got over the hump but I cannot tell you how many times our girls either didn't score or didn't get another base (all of these two teams girls do this at 1st, 2nd and 3rd base) because they wouldn't make contact with the blocking player.

 

[Ken B]

Little Angels Softball,
What association are you in? As described above, impeding the progress of a baserunner without possession or attempting to catch a *thrown/hit ball is usually going to get obstruction.

Ken


Clarification: When I say thrown ball, I'm thinking the train wreck scenario where a fielder is pulled into the runner while trying to catch a thrown ball. I need to recheck the rule, but I think the runner is protected here.
______________________________________

*See Ajaywill's post below for the correct info

 

[mgardner]

Contact is not necessary for it to be obstruction

 

[CoachKevin]

I'd have to have seen the play to be sure, but obstruction only occurs when a defender does not have the ball or is not going for the ball and is in the way of a runner and contact occurs. For example, if that SS (without the ball) was standing in front of 2nd base as a runner was trying to touch it and go to 3rd and your runner made contact with her, you'd have obstruction. If your runner stops and tries to go around the SS, then no obstruction.

Pretty much if a defender has the ball or is going for the ball, obstruction will not be called. The defender has a right to make a play and can block the base completely if she has ball and she may go into the runner's path to get a ball without penalty.

On my 10U team, there are a couple of teams we play fairly regularly that teach their girls that if they are away from the play (for example, a 3rd baseman on a ball hit to right field), they need to block the path of runners trying to go to their base and beyond. In this scenario, let's say a runner is on second and our girls get a base hit to right field, the 3rd baseman will immediately position herself right in front of third base directly in the path of the runner coming from second. They teach this because they realize 10 year old girls will not normally run into another girl so as long as the runner stops and goes around the player, it is not obstruction. It took me about 15 games or so to finally get one of my girls to make contact with one of their girls, and it was actually on a play where I would have held the girl anyway but I had her round third after the play then held her at last second when the throw went home. After the play was over, I called timeout and approached the base umpire, who did not see the obstruction, and asked him to call it (it is his call) or to confer with the home plate ump (who did plainly see it) if he was unsure. He elected to confer with the plate ump and within about 10 seconds, he motioned for my girl and awarded her home plate for the obstruction. The other coach was pissed that we finally got over the hump but I cannot tell you how many times our girls either didn't score or didn't get another base (all of these two teams girls do this at 1st, 2nd and 3rd base) because they wouldn't make contact with the blocking player.

Hmmmm in the scenario you wrote, OBS isn't an automatic extra base, I think the umpire in your case didn't apply the rule the correct way.

The only play the defender has the "right of way" is on a hit ball, other than that the runner has the "right of way"

 

[obbay]

Contact is not necessary for it to be obstruction

I had an umpire tell me once " no contact, no obstruction".

The only play the defender has the "right of way" is on a hit ball, other than that the runner has the "right of way"

that's what I thought, but if she's receiving a throw that is in the air, isn't that treated the same as posession of the ball? or is it?

 

[mgardner]

The umpire was wrong, in fact there is such a thing as verbal obstruction. Faking a tag is also obstruction.

About to receive doesn't count as posession of the ball but I believe in NCAA the fielder can be in base path if ball is closer than runner. In most (maybe all) other sanctions you must have the ball.

 

[mogsoftball]

I had an umpire tell me once " no contact, no obstruction".

I have been told exact same thing by an ump.

had a girl slow up to go around a player standing about 4 feet in front of the plate in base line. As our player was going around her ball arrived and defender sweeped behins her to make a tag.

I argueds if your player did not slow up to go around defender standing in base line without ball she would have been safe. Ump said if there has been contact he would ave called obstruction, but since our runner chose to go around no obstruction.

 

[Ajaywill]

Two things must happen to have obstruction:

The fielder does not have the ball or is not fielding a batted ball -and-
The runner is impeded (slows down, alters path, stutter steps, etc.)

If both of these occur, you have obstruction. Contact is not necessary per the rule and any umpire that tells you otherwise is incorrect and that is subject to protest.

The award for obstruction is the base that the runner would have reached without the obstruction. That is a judgement call by the umpire.

This is based on the ASA rule and is similar in most of the other alphabet soup organizations. NCAA absolves the fielder of obstruction if she is "about to receive" a thrown ball. That is defined as the ball being closer to the fielder than the runner.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

Bottom line is obstruction will usually not be called unless there is contact. I've had dozens of umpires tell me this.

I've also never seen it called if a player is going for a thrown ball in a close play, which is what it sounds like above. It actually happens a lot on 1st base. A ball is thrown a wee bit down the line at first and the 1st baseman comes off the bag to get it, causing the runner to slow down, duck or move a bit out of their direct path. I've never, ever seen obstruction called for that in spite of how the rule is written. In fact, if the 1st baseman is lucky enough to slap a tag on the slowing runner, that runner will be called out.

I do know how the rules are written, but I also know how they're called. Umpires will tell you this if you ask them. "If your runner slows down, stops or goes around, I'm not calling obstruction. If you want the call, I need a little contact." If you ask politely, they'll tell you that obstruction is a pretty obscure call, and they pretty much want it to be blatant before they will call it. That's why any umpire saying he needs contact to make the call isn't telling you he needs contact by rule ... he just needs it if you want him to make the call. Makes sense to me.

The umpire in my scenario made the right call by awarding my girl an extra base. I knew I was getting an obstruction call because I knew the home plate ump had seen the contact. Because of this, I brought my girl almost half way down the line at third before sending her back. I in essence made it pretty easy for the umpire to say she made have scored had no obstruction occurred even though I had no intention of sending her home either way. I just used my knowledge of the how the rule would be called to gain advantage for my girls.