Another Catcher Trying To Get A Call

[RADcatcher]

Don’t get me wrong, I am 1000% behind getting the chicanery out of the game. That includes umpires with solutions looking for problems.

That was not a malicious contact. The catcher didn’t do anything that put anybody in harm’s way

Hmmm? Appeared to me catcher was purposely doing something versus incidental contact.
In this example-
Catcher purposely physically collided with another player. Just because no one got hurt in that moment doesn't mean that action couldn't cause harm.
To herself or the other player.
It wasn't just the ball that made contact with the batter it was the body.

Was it unsportsmanlike? Ehhh … nothing happened but a coach made a kid look foolish. It certainly isn’t good and it could have turned into something. Like I said, it was the equivalent of flopping.

Are you putting unsportsmanlike conduct and flopping in two different categories?

Every game is a new game.

 

[The Man In Blue]

I’m sure I’m being hypocritical with some of my thoughts here …

Purposely doing something is not malicious. Nor does malicious have to be intentional. Malicious (IMO) means injury could be reasonably expected.

I’ll admit I might view it differently if the sizes were flipped, but as it was, I just find it comical and ignorant. If the catcher was twice the size of the batter and flopped on her like that, we would all expect a bad outcome.

Is flopping unsportsmanlike? I don’t necessarily think so. It’s bush league, in poor taste, and evidence of a poor attitude toward the game. I mean, on some level I reckon you can call it unsportsmanlike. Certainly the pro levels (basketball, soccer) that are trying to eliminate it are going with a hardline stance. I don’t consider it to the level of an ejectable offense though.

 

[RADcatcher]

I’m sure I’m being hypocritical with some of my thoughts here …

Purposely doing something is not malicious. Nor does malicious have to be intentional. Malicious (IMO) means injury could be reasonably expected.

I’ll admit I might view it differently if the sizes were flipped, but as it was, I just find it comical and ignorant. If the catcher was twice the size of the batter and flopped on her like that, we would all expect a bad outcome.

Is flopping unsportsmanlike? I don’t necessarily think so. It’s bush league, in poor taste, and evidence of a poor attitude toward the game. I mean, on some level I reckon you can call it unsportsmanlike. Certainly the pro levels (basketball, soccer) that are trying to eliminate it are going with a hardline stance. I don’t consider it to the level of an ejectable offense though.

Like your feedback on how the umpire is reading the room/field.

Would you consider flopping a time when you would give a warning?
Then if they got floppy again in the game it might be considered unsportsmanlike?

 

[CoachCeetar]

imo flopping, like pitch framing, like derek jeter whining about ball calls, its all "gamesmanship". A penalty isn't a penalty based on the severity of the result, it's based on tricking the umpire/ref/etc that something happened that didn't or trying to suggest a way they should act in the future. "You missed that strike call!" trying to get a makeup call, or as in this thread, constantly trying to draw attention to potential interference
Certainly if you constantly step behind the batter when you make a throw, and the umpire is already thinking "interference" you're likely to get more of those borderline calls with very little risk of anything being called against you. They're betting that the umpire will call interference more often than plays where this tactic DOES impede the throw and they don't get the runner where they might've. It's kind of like a batter setting up way back in the box figuring they're as effective there but might get a catcher's interference call by being closer to the glove.

 

[The Man In Blue]

Like your feedback on how the umpire is reading the room/field.

Would you consider flopping a time when you would give a warning?
Then if they got floppy again in the game it might be considered unsportsmanlike?

I wouldn't make a blanket statement, but I think what we saw in the video absolutely necessitates a team warning the same as "Just run her over next time!" necessitates one. The team warning takes care of ANY other antics the team may come up with. The next thing, even if it is something different, leads to the ejection of the player(s) involved and the coach.

There are already adequate obstruction and interference rules in place. To me, that is an aggravating piece of this video: if the runner had been stealing, you more than likely had the batter's interference call had you just made the play like you should. Instead, a coach teaches players to act like a Jim Carey character. It shows you have no respect for the players, the umpires, and the game.

 

[daywalkerdad]

Hmmm? Appeared to me catcher was purposely doing something versus incidental contact.
In this example-
Catcher purposely physically collided with another player. Just because no one got hurt in that moment doesn't mean that action couldn't cause harm.
To herself or the other player.
It wasn't just the ball that made contact with the batter it was the body.


Are you putting unsportsmanlike conduct and flopping in two different categories?

To me the as soon as the catcher walks toward the batter instead of the runner it is a non softball play. Any contact is an issue. NFHS 3-6-13b. b. use of profanity, intimidation and/or deceitful tactics, baiting or taunting; or
I think this is at least deceitful tactics and probably bating, a warning or ejection. Although I do not think it was the intent, could certainly see the batter taking it as an act of intimidation.



My question is If it was 18u would this had lead to an altercation? Would some batters push the catcher away?

 

[RADcatcher]

To me the as soon as the catcher walks toward the batter instead of the runner it is a non softball play.

the delay with no play to be made and then the reaction to walk over to the batter is peculiar.

Any contact is an issue. NFHS 3-6-13b. b. use of profanity, intimidation and/or deceitful tactics, baiting or taunting; or
I think this is at least deceitful tactics and probably bating, a warning or ejection. Although I do not think it was the intent, could certainly see the batter taking it as an act of intimidation.

Therein lies what and how the Umpire will interpret the sequence of event.

My question is If it was 18u would this had lead to an altercation? Would some batters push the catcher away?

At any age peculiarly / purposely creating physical contact with another player is imo the initiation of altercation.
People respond differently to those moments. Umpires included.

 

[Agcy]

I never know exactly how I will handle situations like this, but I think the consensus here is:
- Warning for un-sportsman like behavior
- Ejection if if happens again

And, I think the only way to stop coaches like this is to call it in every game every time it happens.

 

[Cougars]

My question is If it was 18u would this had lead to an altercation? Would some batters push the catcher away?

We had something similar in our last tournament. The team we were playing was "aggressive" (to be nice), when making tags. I'd almost call them a punch, but at least a very hard slap/push. Happened multiple times, with different fielders. I have no doubt that is how they are taught. The couple players of ours that it happened to aren't the type to push back, so they just dealt with it and moved on. We have a couple other players that are quicker to get worked up, my one daughter included (not saying that as a positive or negative, just as reality). I know there would have been a push back from them. Maybe that's what the other team is going for. Umps likely don't do anything with the initial hard "tag", but catch/punish the retaliation.

 

[YoungBuck]

We had something similar in our last tournament. The team we were playing was "aggressive" (to be nice), when making tags. I'd almost call them a punch, but at least a very hard slap/push. Happened multiple times, with different fielders. I have no doubt that is how they are taught. The couple players of ours that it happened to aren't the type to push back, so they just dealt with it and moved on. We have a couple other players that are quicker to get worked up, my one daughter included (not saying that as a positive or negative, just as reality). I know there would have been a push back from them. Maybe that's what the other team is going for. Umps likely don't do anything with the initial hard "tag", but catch/punish the retaliation.

The intelligent player / coach / parent doesn't do or teach this because of the impending retaliation. Some sports do a good job of allowing players to settle matters. Obviously softball isn't there yet because we see moronic plays like this one.

The more leeway an umpire gives to this foolishness the more they encourage it.