Almost got ejected from a game this afternoon

[Cannonball]

I think I posted this last year but I was thrown out last year in one of our first tournaments. The problem was, I didn't say anything at all. I was ejected without even knowing what had happened. The culprit was a dad from another team yelling at the ump behind our dugout and because he was upset about his game. After trying to talk to the home plate ump and being warned that if I said anything at all, the game would be called, I walked off of the field and left. The umpire was soon to follow. Once the Tournament Director found out what had happened, he released the umpire and replaced him. I was found and allowed back in to the park. BTW, the base umpire, who I've known for about 20 years was trying all along to tell the plate ump that I was not the guy yelling.

As an FYI, I don't think much good comes from coaches getting ejected. I've heard all the arguments before about firing up a team or making the umpires change what they are calling. I disagree on all of it. Most of the umpires do a great service. I think it sets a bad example for a coach to get ejected. I also believe that there comes a point where the coach is no longer working on coaching and focuses on arguing with the ump. Not good.

 

[SoCalDad]

Well, there is problem number one. Team personnel are permitted on the field and in the dugout/team area.

As an umpire, I would have moved your coach back into the team area or the parking lot.

Maybe where you play but not in my area. Only 3 badged people are allowed in the dugout or on the field. All others must be in the spectator areas. In 15 years of coaching I have never had an ump ask one of my coaches to move from behind the plate area.

 

[SoCalDad]

Pitching is about a pitcher adapting to the umpire's strike zone. While the strike zone may have been wrong, it is up to your DD (not you) to adapt and put the ball where the umpire is demanding it. If your DD is to become a good pitcher, she has to be able to adapt.

I wasn't any better than you at that age, but:

Take a look at the entire dynamics of the game and what happened when you started complaining the strike zone. The game became something different, and it became more about you than about your DD.

You created an excuse for your DD. I.e., she wasn't walking batters because she couldn't perform at a level the game demanded (which is the truth), she was walking batters because the umpire was bad.

To put it another way, "you weren't dumb, the teacher just asked questions you didn't know the answers for."

Reread my original post I never said DD was walking batters. In fact she only walked two batters over 5 innings while striking out 11. She did adjust to his strike zone. What I left out of my original post was that the strike zone between the two teams was not the same. The other teams pitchers were getting calls at the knees and the letters. Even the parents on the other team were making comments that the strike zones were different. I did not argue balls and strikes. I made a comment after a pitch from DD on an 0 - 2 pitch went right below the letters and my coach behind the plate signaled to me that it was down the middle. I was frustrated. There is also more to the story. This ump belongs to the association that I fired from my rec league last year due to ongoing problems with professionalism and was obviously calling an unfair game. I have no problem with an ump having a smaller or larger strike zone as long as it is the same for all pitchers and batters.

 

[MTR]

Maybe where you play but not in my area. Only 3 badged people are allowed in the dugout or on the field. All others must be in the spectator areas. In 15 years of coaching I have never had an ump ask one of my coaches to move from behind the plate area.

It's not a matter of area, it is the rule.

Check:

ASA 5.12
NFHS 3.5.7/3.6.6
NCAA 6.4.3

 

[SoCalDad]

It's not a matter of area, it is the rule.

Check:

ASA 5.12
NFHS 3.5.7/3.6.6
NCAA 6.4.3

I will say this again and then not respond further. The tournament rules in my area ONLY allow 3 badged coaches in the dugout. Additional coaches ARE permitted by tournament rules to be OUTSIDE the dugout. ASA rule 5.12 allows for this situation.

 

[MTR]

I will say this again and then not respond further. The tournament rules in my area ONLY allow 3 badged coaches in the dugout. Additional coaches ARE permitted by tournament rules to be OUTSIDE the dugout. ASA rule 5.12 allows for this situation.

ASA allows coaches to be outside the dugout when the rules permit. That means to be a base coach, to warm up a pitcher or perform other functions on the field involving the game OR to go to the bathroom, concession stand or vehicle/parking lot and that is only supposed to be with the umpire's permission.

Ever been to a world cup and seen a player from another country ask permission of the umpire to leave the dugout to go to the ladies room? I have. I was taken aback until I realized how serious others take the rules of the game unlike here where many believe some rules are a matter of convenience and strategy.

If you play a tournament that allows coaches to coach from a spectator area, good for you, but that is not the rule. Again, there are no rule allowance for a coach or player to be outside the dugout or designated team area. Check definitions on page 26 of your 2010 ASA rule book.

And, BTW, I have enforced this rule as do all the umpires in my area, in HS and ASA.

 

[SoCalDad]

If you play a tournament that allows coaches to coach from a spectator area, good for you, but that is not the rule. Again, there are no rule allowance for a coach or player to be outside the dugout or designated team area. Check definitions on page 26 of your 2010 ASA rule book.

And, BTW, I have enforced this rule as do all the umpires in my area, in HS and ASA.

I also am aware of rule 12 on page 106 of the 2010 ASA rule book. These are non-championship play tournaments and, by RULE, are allowed to set local playing rules that differ from ASA Championship play. If the local playing rules allow for team representatives to be outside the dugout why do you have an issue? The rules, as written for the local tournament, are being followed. When I get to Championship play I change my approach with my coaches to follow the rules in place at those tournaments. A good coach will know how to use ALL the rules in place to their advantage. My team is out their to win and my job as their coach is use every method available allowed within the rules to coach them to win.

 

[MTR]

I also am aware of rule 12 on page 106 of the 2010 ASA rule book. These are non-championship play tournaments and, by RULE, are allowed to set local playing rules that differ from ASA Championship play. If the local playing rules allow for team representatives to be outside the dugout why do you have an issue? The rules, as written for the local tournament, are being followed. When I get to Championship play I change my approach with my coaches to follow the rules in place at those tournaments. A good coach will know how to use ALL the rules in place to their advantage. My team is out their to win and my job as their coach is use every method available allowed within the rules to coach them to win.

Until your last post, there was no mention of private tournament. You simply stated that for 15 years you have been doing something contrary to the rule and that is what I pointed out. But even if it were allowed, as the PU, I'm not going to permit a coach from setting up behind the plate and feed pitch information to you. Track pitches, make notes, whatever, but he is not going to act as a coach. If you are going to allow that, we just as well allow coaches to go anywhere, included centerfield with a pair of binoculars.

 

[FPump]

I have 4 coaches on my team. 2 in the dugout with me, 1 keeping stats, 1 behind the plate tracking pitch count and heat map. Coach behind the plate confirmed the small strike zone.

SoCalDad, Don't take this personally, as ejections are just business, but if I were the PU, with the comment you made, combined with the fact that you've got a coach behind me at the plate (yes, I know he's allowed per tourney rules) reporting to you on his opinion of my strike zone, you're gone. Quick trigger? Absolutely. But you pushed the envelope here, which pushed the EJ button. To add to MTR's comment about the BU.....he's not getting you any kind of a reprieve by "calming me down".
I know from reading your posts that you hold umpires in high regard and that you afford them the respect they deserve. You said you were frustrated. Understandable, you're coach and you want to win, you let loose with the "it would have been a strike in my town" comment. Doesn't make you a bad guy,
but it does get you an early exit.
BTW...I'm with Stephanie, thought the "smaller than my ex-wife's heart" line was great.
Hope the remainder of your season goes well.

 

[SoCalDad]

SoCalDad, Don't take this personally, as ejections are just business, but if I were the PU, with the comment you made, combined with the fact that you've got a coach behind me at the plate (yes, I know he's allowed per tourney rules) reporting to you on his opinion of my strike zone, you're gone. Quick trigger? Absolutely. But you pushed the envelope here, which pushed the EJ button. To add to MTR's comment about the BU.....he's not getting you any kind of a reprieve by "calming me down".
I know from reading your posts that you hold umpires in high regard and that you afford them the respect they deserve. You said you were frustrated. Understandable, you're coach and you want to win, you let loose with the "it would have been a strike in my town" comment. Doesn't make you a bad guy,
but it does get you an early exit.
BTW...I'm with Stephanie, thought the "smaller than my ex-wife's heart" line was great.
Hope the remainder of your season goes well.

There is a lot more to that particular game than I have time to post here but I do want to explain the coach behind the plate. Behind every field this tournament setup an official scorers table that we were required to have at least 1 coach/parent and a max of 2. This policy has been in place for this tournament and many others I have attended over the past 15 years and one of the requirements is that both the official scorekeeper (home) and visitor scorekeeper compare books between each other and the umpire between innings. This is to avoid conflicts that arise from lineup substitutions, scoring differences, etc. Works well. The other coach/parent allowed usually tracks stats/pitch count. It is common practice for the second coach/parent to get up between innings and share information with the dugout about what has happened in previous innings with the batters (i.e. hit to left field, struck out). Never had an ump have an issue with this since it is part of the tournament rules and both teams do it.

Was my comment out of line? Perhaps. Will I do it again? Perhaps. I usually keep my cool but when an ump is treating two teams differently during a game for issues that happened off the field than I may very well not be able to keep my mouth under control. Fortunately this ump belongs to an association that will not be any of the next 4 tournaments my team is attending. We may run into him at districts but then we will be operating under ASA JO rules and the ASA UIC so what happened at this tourney will very likely not repeat itself.