All I hear is " keep your back elbow up" and "level swing"

[Mutinebullfrog]

I coach 10U and what I find at this level is that girls tend to cheat on a swing and wind up kind of creeping at the ball particularly against faster pitchers. Basically they start to slowly move the hands down and forward when the pitchers in her windup to get a head start on the swing. They wind up loosing all power and swinging under the ball. I think this is why people start to tell kids to keep the elbow up and swing down to the ball.

 

[rdbass]

I like a high back elbow during the load, because I have found helps my DD not drop her hands as much.I also think it helps her to "turn" the bat behind her instead of beside her. I like to have my DD, as she strides to toe touch (forward by coil) to raise her back arm/humerus like a catcher making a throw to 2nd on a steal.I see her slotting her back elbow better.When she had her elbow lower she just went back then forward with the hands.She was all back then all forward.No whip on the bat.

 

[jbooth]

How do you do that? Not questioning it, just never heard it and wondered what you meant by it. By scap, you mean scapula? At first, I thought I read ''retract the scalp.'' I see a lot of coaches out there with retracted scalps. That's why so many caps are sold.

In layman's terms, "retraction of the scapula" is, move the shoulder blade toward the spine. Retracting both scapulas, is pinching your shoulder blades together. You shouldn't have to think about the shoulder blade. When you move your elbow behind you, the scapula retracts.

 

[ConorMacleod]

Mmmmm....I don't know. I believe baseball and softball are the same at the hitting zone and/or point of contact, but getting there is a different matter. High back elbow and longer swing may work in baseball, but when you get into the higher ages of softball you will find that the pitcher is a whole lot closer in softball than baseball, and the girls that are not as strong will not get the head of the bat to the hitting zone. My DD's coach, who happened to be a pretty good DH in college, believes a stance with low elbow (or upside down V or triangle) will get DD's bat to the ball much quicker. It's what works for her, and I believe what generally works for the majority.

 

[rdbass]

Will if it works for your DD,great.High back elbow works for my DD.Just a average dad's opinion.Looks like your new here.Sit down take a look around read alittle.Check out the model swing thread/posts.Check back later and see if you feel the same way.

 

[Wellphyt]

The back elbow must slot close to the side prior to swing launch. A high back elbow means the elbow has further to go to slot. Williams used a setup where his back elbow was close to his side and his front forearm was close to level to the ground just off the belly button area. This setup positioned his hands and arms such that it was very easy and quick for him to get his hands and arms into the universal launch position.

Ted Williams preached quickness, and the style he used for his stance fit his philosophy perfectly.

IMO the part of the overhand throw action that transfers over to hitting is the internal rotation of the upper arm. The back elbow will naturally raise up some or poke back if a hitter uses a sequence, so my preference is for kids to start with a lowered rear elbow. If a kid starts with a raised rear elbow and then performs a sequence, the elbow will typically raise up beyond/above horizontal to the ground. Most kids aren't able to get the rear elbow back down correctly on time, with an elbow that far away from the body.

I've taken many swings alternating back and forth between Williams' style and the raised rear elbow style, and Williams' style results in a very quick and compact swing. Williams said that against pitchers with exceptional fastballs he would sometimes flatten the barrel in his stance to be even quicker.

 

[Ken Krause]

Load the hands, retract the scap. If you can do that successfully (consistently) without raising the elbow, I'll stop believing in it.

As I stated before, the back elbow will go up when you load the hands. What the OP was talking about was starting it in the up position in the stance -- usually meant to be parallel to the ground.

I personally think it limits the load some. Others may disagree. But here's the thing: it's no more necessary than putting your hat on upside down.

 

[Cannonball]

IMO, as our dds progress, each hits a plateau that often hard to overcome. With mine, she did well but had not produced the home run power that her size and strength seems to suggest. For her development, we incorporated a level back elbow BUT as she pulled the bow back, she also included a tip and rip approach. Her back elbow raised ever so slightly as she tipped. For her, that was just what the doctor ordered. Her junior and senior years in high school were a time of trying to develop this and then ingrain it. This past year in college, it was second nature. She has seen the fruits of her labor. However, I'd suggest that there is not a one size fits all approach and so, each of us are always searching for that next fix to the next plateau. For my child now, that is a commitment to strength and conditioning. Good luck to all.

Edited:

Ken, I agree. However, for some that is an athletic move and for some, a conscience thought until it is learned. JMHO!

 

[rdbass]

So true,what works for one hitter may not work for another.Myself and my DD are new to learning the proper hitting sequence.So what we are doing or have done my not be right or should be copied.I hope to explain my thought process were it will be understood.I have seen in video that my DD when striding out to toe touch wasn't sloting her back arm correctly.She would have her arms in the letter A set up.From there it was all straight back then straight forward to the ball.She was pushing the bat towards the ball.So from reading,researching and experimenting I have found that if she raised her back elbow up higher it helped her now whip the bat.When we practice I will tell her to "get that back elbow up higher"we exaggerate.I know in the game her swing will and does look different. Her elbow my not be as high as we practice.I have found from my DD swings and swings I take, that it's easier to turn the bat behind her.Will her swing hold up to faster high school pitching we will see.Her swing may not look the same in the future as our journey continues.I hope everyone understands my reason for the higher back elbow.I will continue to learn.

 

[nanotech14]

Mmmmm....I don't know. I believe baseball and softball are the same at the hitting zone and/or point of contact, but getting there is a different matter. High back elbow and longer swing may work in baseball, but when you get into the higher ages of softball you will find that the pitcher is a whole lot closer in softball than baseball, and the girls that are not as strong will not get the head of the bat to the hitting zone. My DD's coach, who happened to be a pretty good DH in college, believes a stance with low elbow (or upside down V or triangle) will get DD's bat to the ball much quicker. It's what works for her, and I believe what generally works for the majority.

What works for your dd is great,but your believe that it doesn't work at the higher levels,doesn't hold water.Take a look at Megan Bush and the comparision between Albert Pujols ,both have their elbows up.I'am not saying what your dd does is wrong,but that it doesn't hold up to what you said. The High-Level Swing