Video update

"Throwing around the body" can take a few interpretations.

I agree with Ken's point, that many top-level pitchers achieve "lag" in a somewhat behind-the-body position around 9:00.

In the case of younger, more novice pitchers, it usually is indicated by a disconnected upper and lower body,
with shoulders rotated mostly square ("Closed") at release, and the hips remaining more open.
Hips that "clear the arm" at release, tend to remain in this position.

I think this is what is meant when cautioning against throwing "around" the body, vs "across" it

djcarter1966 said:

So do you think the information in the video I posted was correct. I just don't see a way around (no pun intended) what is being demonstrated. IF you are across the power line you have to compensate and that compensation is not optimal mechanically, that's not to say certain pitchers can't make it work but I would not teach them that way. To your point though I guess you are not really stacked correctly with the right posture if you are across the line? For Twentys DD as I mentioned there is so much going right I would not change much but like you mentioned what harm could come from cuing her to drive "straight" instead of to the side and put down a target piece of tape that would help her do that?

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I don't see a power line issue. I see a drive issue and the symptom/result is her body angle at release and the toe across the power line. Play the first tape a little past release and see where her toe ends up--that's what I want. If we can adjust how she gets to plant; we can change the symptom. I'd work on drive and whip with this girl and I believe toe plant will improve as a result.

Ken B said:

I don't see a power line issue. I see a drive issue and a symptom/result is her body angle at release and the toe across the power line. Play the first tape a little past release and see where her body and toe end up--that's what I want. If we can adjust how she gets to plant, we can change the symptom. I'd work on drive and whip with this girl and I believe a result will be where her toe plants.

View attachment 11444

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Ken, based on the two shots you put in the previous post and Doug's comment about brush, if I address the drive angle a bit is it also your contention that she may get a bit more brush at release? It appears that way to me in looking at the screen grabs you posted.


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Ken B said:

I don't see a power line issue. I see a drive issue and a symptom/result is her body angle at release and the toe across the power line. Play the first tape a little past release and see where her toe ends up--that's what I want. If we can adjust how she gets to plant, we can change the symptom. I'd work on drive and whip with this girl and I believe a result will be where her toe plants.

View attachment 11444

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I'm curious Ken on how you would work on whip? If you don't mind. I see she could use more bend in the arm, and a stronger drive with firm plant will help out.

I think just working on keeping loose and feeling the whip. Lots of underhand catch and thinking about the ball just hanging out there and feeling whip/snap. For me its a process of feedback and questions. I ask how a particular pitch felt, why it felt that way and if she can replicate/eliminate it. Develop ownership in what she does so she can take an active role in making the change (vs "Do 25 of these thingies followed by 25 of these every day and you'll be whipping in 2-3 weeks...")

Twenty20ticker said:

Ken, based on the two shots you put in the previous post and Doug's comment about brush, if I address the drive angle a bit is it also your contention that she may get a bit more brush at release? It appears that way to me in looking at the screen grabs you posted.

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I like the "h" she gets into as she loads and fires into her drive. I think she could get even more umph by using the 2 step sequence where she would keep her weight over her front foot instead of rolling her weight over her back foot. Feel for a more aggressive push-push with both feet instead of rolling forward, loading then pushing. The 2 step is much more dynamic and ballistic. It feels much more urgent and she'll feel the need to adjust her arm swing timing.

Another suggestion would be to think about driving more squarely towards the target and allowing the body to open. I see her putting effort into opening and I don't think it helps her at plant and release. In my opinion, making these adjustments will result in her plant foot pointing more toward the target and landing with the toe on the edge of the line vs over it. Again, I see these as symptoms and not the issue.


In this clip, I see her shift her weight onto the back foot. Fine for a rolling start, but I think she'd like what the 2 step can do for her. As she loads, I see too much torso rotation in her "h." I really like how she loads and drives with her glove!


As she drives, I see an effort made to get open and would rather see the effort going forward and into plant. Some very good pitchers can do this, but I don't consider it optimal. At this point (first shot) I'd like to see the plant foot turn not much more than 45 degrees instead of 90 (helps to think straight, but allow for 45-35 degrees.) I'd also like to see the drag foot trying to drag the toenails (as opposed to almost dragging the side of her foot,) but allow for something in between (just to the side of the big toe.) The result of the new effort to drive forward squarely will get the plant foot into a stronger angle to resist the more powerful 2 step drive, and get the hip in a better position for brush.

I think she could also work on pulling her glove side in at release.

Apologies for the short and vague responses earlier. As I look back, they cause nothing but frustration...

Hope this makes sense,
Ken

Ken B said:

I like the "h" she gets into as she loads and fires into her drive. I think she could get even more umph by using the 2 step sequence where she would keep her weight over her front foot instead of rolling her weight over her back foot. Feel for a more aggressive push-push with both feet instead of rolling forward, loading then pushing. The 2 step is much more dynamic and ballistic. It feels much more urgent and she'll feel the need to adjust her arm swing timing.

Another suggestion would be to think about driving more squarely towards the target and allowing the body to open. I see her putting effort into opening and I don't think it helps her at plant and release. In my opinion, making these adjustments will result in her plant foot pointing more toward the target and landing with the toe on the edge of the line vs over it. Again, I see these as symptoms and not the issue.

View attachment 11449
In this clip, I see her shift her weight onto the back foot. Fine for a rolling start, but I think she'd like what the 2 step can do for her. As she loads, I see too much torso rotation in her "h."

View attachment 11450
As she drives, I see an effort made to get open and would rather see the effort going forward and into plant. Some very good pitchers can do this, but I don't consider it optimal. At this point I'd like to see the plant foot turn not much more than 45 degrees instead of 90. I'd also like to see the drag foot trying to drag the toenails (as opposed to the side of her foot,) but allow for something in between (like just to the side of the big toe.) The result of the new effort to drive forward will get the plant foot into a stronger angle to resist the more powerful 2 step drive, and turn the hip a tad more to be in a better position for brush.

I think she could also work on pulling her glove side in at release.

Apologies for the short and vague responses earlier. As I look back, they cause nothing but frustration...

Hope this makes sense,
Ken

Click to expand...

No problem it all makes sense now......thanks.


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Hopefully javasource stops by to check my work. I know he's busy, but if I'm not representing his material well, I wanna know...

Ken B said:

Hopefully javasource stops by to check my work. I know he's busy, but if I'm not representing his material well, I wanna know...

Click to expand...

I know Mike has commented before on the DD and I hope he checks in as well.....but I have found your insights, along with what Doug said very helpful so far. Sounds like I need some more 2 step work.


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Twenty20ticker said:

https://vimeo.com/199576691

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Click to expand...

To Ken's wonderful post, I'd like to add a couple things...

Javasource mentioned "stride-dominant drive" recently. I absolutely love that label, as I believe it is quite common in young pitchers. I refer back to a recent point I made in some other thread awhile back. It is much easier to stride out well than it is to THRUST out explosively. Why? Because the stride takes a lot less muscle effort than the thrust. And, the thrust is bearing the body weight. You'd have to be one heck of an athlete to develop a thrust-dominant drive over a stride-dominant one.

At first glance at this clip, things look pretty good. Looking deeper, I see one issue that I think ties in with Ken's points is this... She has a great stride, but could be more explosive with her thrust (the two-step action and staying square Ken mentioned should help). I see her as being somewhat stride dominant. I believe stride dominance results in a drive that is too high for the pitcher for the thrust she has, end not enough forward momentum. And, you tend to see the torso tilted back a bit fairly early in the drive.

I don't see this young pitcher as having a serious issue with stride dominance, but I does sort of stand out to me.

Also, Notice that once she gets stretched out with her legs and the stride foot has kicked all the way forward, the stride foot comes straight down rather than continue forward as it lands. It almost appears that her back (right) foot is sort of refusing to let go.

What do I see as the fix for this????? A more explosive AND SPRINGY THRUST, such that once the thrust is spent, that back/right leg/foot doesn't look stuck, but rather, sort of springs forward away from the rubber (as would be the case with a sprinter sprinting out of the blocks) due mainly to the sheer force of the forward-moving body and the liberation of the drag foot.