- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
You are describing a slow movement wrt laterally tilting the spine. Once you feel the hip tilt you will understand. It is clear that you haven't felt it.
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FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Butter, it sounds like you are describing a two gear model with the 'top vertical gear' being the rear hip and the 'bottom horizontal gear' being the same rear hip. That is not how I view it.
- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
How you came to that conclusion is really beyond me.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Good, because the 'top vertical gear' is 'lateral tilt'.
- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
My problem is not with lateral tilt. I said it happens. You tilt the torso at the rear hip. You do not LATERALLY BEND THE SPINE as you keep talking about. The spine gets bent.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
Far from slow. It's an explosive feel. Has a twitch-like feel. I personally don't have a feel of attempting to bend the spine.
OK, so, here's where I get lost in some of these threads...
From my perspective, FFS and Butter are agreeing on the result, but not how we get there. Am I following the discussion correctly? I wonder if you guys truly disagree or if you're just labeling/seeing the same thing and trying to describe it in a different way.
What I mean is, are you two actually in disagreement over what happens in the swing? IOW, if I try to mimic the "lateral tilt" (I'm just calling it that because those two words together clearly, to me, describe what I see), the hip and the spine both are involved.
FWIW, this happens to me a lot in the hitting threads. Two people (not always you two!) who both clearly know their stuff seem to have a major disagreement, but to me it just seems like debating semantics. Again, this could be my lack of knowledge causing me to not see the obvious, big differences.
I guess what I'm saying is over the past 15-20 posts of your discussion, I'm not sure how what you guys are debating is different. I think you're both right, but maybe I'm not fully understanding what one or both of you are saying.
From my perspective, FFS and Butter are agreeing on the result, but not how we get there. Am I following the discussion correctly? I wonder if you guys truly disagree or if you're just labeling/seeing the same thing and trying to describe it in a different way.
What I mean is, are you two actually in disagreement over what happens in the swing? IOW, if I try to mimic the "lateral tilt" (I'm just calling it that because those two words together clearly, to me, describe what I see), the hip and the spine both are involved.
FWIW, this happens to me a lot in the hitting threads. Two people (not always you two!) who both clearly know their stuff seem to have a major disagreement, but to me it just seems like debating semantics. Again, this could be my lack of knowledge causing me to not see the obvious, big differences.
I guess what I'm saying is over the past 15-20 posts of your discussion, I'm not sure how what you guys are debating is different. I think you're both right, but maybe I'm not fully understanding what one or both of you are saying.
FiveFrameSwing
Banned
CoachJD, I believe the difference is with the "actions under the hood". Not to put words into Butter's mouth, but what I get out of this exchange is that he feels the 'lateral tilting' action should be a 'result' of 'tilting the rear hip', whereas I am suggesting that the core is acted upon directly. I see the 'gear action' as a 'result' of using the core correctly, with the rear leg setup appropriately. I essentially marry the aggressive 'lateral tilt' action with a pronation of the lead-arm, with the two actions capturing the barrel and sending it into it's swing arc.
In any event ... swing, experiment, and draw your own conclusions.
In any event ... swing, experiment, and draw your own conclusions.
FFS it is my impression that you are suggesting "Lateral Side Bend" not "Lateral Tilt". Which if my understanding is correct one contains Pelvic Tilt aka "Lateral Tilt" and one does not "Lateral Side Bend". I believe that Butter may have the same understanding of your written statements.
- May 3, 2014
- 2,149
- 83
You can break the 'main engine' down into separate movements to better understand it and master it.
In golf the motion below is referred to as "lateral side bend". Go to Youtube and search for 'golf' and 'lateral side bend' ... you should be able to find several videos on the topic. It's the same notion in the softball/baseball swing.
So dumb it down a bit for young hitters ... help them capture the feel of the 'main engine'.
Get a hitter to learn to perform 'lateral side bends' .... bending back to the catcher. Get a feel for the contraction taking place.
Also perform simple 'side rotations' towards the pitcher/ball ....
These motions by themselves are pretty simple and straight forward movements.
Then work on combining them ... performing both a 'lateral side bend' and a 'side rotation' at the same time ... and at high speed. Attempt to do this for a short distance to capture the initial feel.
Get this down and your hitters will be on their way to hitting the ball with authority.
This is important.
Your students have to be the ones to accept ownership for mastering the 'main engine'. Learning occurs when someone wants to learn, not when someone wants to teach.
I can only go by what words I read. And the words above say to practice laterally bending and rotating the torso (spinal rotation) to swing.
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