coaches interfering with players

[chinamigarden]

Given the importance of timing to the swing, I teach what Ted Williams said.

IMO you're better off take that first first pitch and then waiting for a mistake, and fouling off pitcher's pitches, like good hitters do.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, I can't convince you and you can't convince me. Hopefully it works out well for your players, as I hope my approach works out for mine.

 

[Jim]

Given the importance of timing to the swing, I teach what Ted Williams said.

IMO you're better off take that first first pitch and then waiting for a mistake, and fouling off pitcher's pitches, like good hitters do.

What if the first pitch is a mistake? Do want your hitter to take a mistake with a runner on third and one out?

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

If it's a good idea to take the first pitch, why do pitching instructors preach to their pitching students the importance of getting ahead in the count as early as possible to be successful. After going 0-1 on the first pitch, most batters will be more susceptible to swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. Our team stats say that when the pitcher throws a first pitch strike, they retire the batter about 78% of the time. I like those %'s on defense.

 

[Country Boy]

With regard to the opening post and the 'coaches' encouraging the op dd to swing at the first pitch, it would be interesting to know the forum in which they spoke. If it was a one on one conversation or a group chat.

When we are working on individual skills like base stealing, I am talking to my entire team. We discuss fast starts, what pitches to look for, body control, etc. But I have a couple players on the team that know I am not really talking to them. They are sun dial slow and they can laugh about it. But to an outsider or dad watching practice, it would look like I am preparing those girls to steal bases.

Giving the coaches the benefit of the doubt, maybe they were talking to the group instead of just the op's dd.

 

[Chris O'Leary]

What if the first pitch is a mistake? Do want your hitter to take a mistake with a runner on third and one out?

Yes, if they haven't seen that pitcher before an don't have a feel for their velocity or movement and don't know how to time them out.

It's hard to judge what a true mistake looks like if you swing at the first pitch you've ever seen from a pitcher.

 

[Bouldersdad]

If a hitter has not faced a pitcher and its the first time thru the line up why would she hack at the first pitch even if blue calls it a strike, because its in blues strike zone dosent necessarily mean its in the batters hitting zone. Once thru the line up and you discover a pattern that the pitcher throws a first pitch strike and its a hittable pitch then so be it and go after it. There is alot to be said about being a student of the game and studying pitchers movements by the hitter. And If you get to the core of it the best hitters do just that.

We teach a hittng zone and focus a huge amount of time on tracking ball movement and rotation, pitchers location on the mound between pitches. If the ball is in your zone and its a ball you can drive then its all or nothing on that pitch. If a hitter falls prey to blues strike zone she will eventually wind up trying to hit a pitchers pitch. Its blue and the pitcher against the hitter. She has to realize where her zone is and to act on it and take charge of her own zone and be successful at it.

I coach a 18 u travel team for college exposure and what I have discovered over and over is that the more pitches my hitters see the more runs we score. Its pretty much common sense. Make the pitcher throw your pitch. You rack up a huge pitch count you control the tempo of the game by keeping their offense off the diamond. I guarantee you if you see 35 pitches a inning you will score a ton .
It also messes with the pitchers head creates the chance for errors by the defense.

We look center and in a tight zone for up to 2 strikes and as the count goes up the zone increases in size. With 2 strikes we are now looking to put the ball in play as the chances of getting that home run pitch has diminished unless its a mistake pitch. I often hear the phrase protect on 2 strikes. That is a defensive attitude and very out dated advice. On 2 strikes I want my hitters attacking anything close to the plate. So the key word to me is Attack .................

Tim

 

[obbay]

There is way too much 'one way, only way' in sports coaching. And way too many contradictions from excellent coaches (see the Pitching and Hitting forums here for easy examples). You have to be open to all sorts of approaches and methods to getting results.

that's the reason I posted the question in the first place. DD's coaches do not want her taking pitches even though she has no problem hitting. They are not considering the player, they are only thinking "one way to do it right". DD is no Ted Williams but taking pitches helps her relax at the plate and sync herself with the pitcher. she has demonstrated that whatever she is doing works for her. these coaches think they can make her better. the result has been a lot of pop-ups.

When kids have to take a strike or even if they just have to take the first pitch, they tend to chase out of the zone more often when they are "allowed" to swing.
They end up learning a "not allowed to swing" and an "allowed to swing" approach and mentality.

kids may do that when they are first learning the concept, just like kids who are forced to swing before they would normally may result in outs. can't generalize about either. I've learned in this thread that I am right, but that the other school of thought is right too. the key is knowing what and how much to apply in the given situation with a given player. As I said before, I would rather see batters taking lots of pitches than to see our team going down in 3 or 4 pitches.

If a batter is more comfortable swinging right away and that works for her- great! but if she's always swinging right away (being aggressive) and not getting on base, then it's time to consider other plans of attack. I find that many coaches do not look at the quality of the at-bats or the hits generated.

In DD's case it isn't going to matter because she got another concussion over the weekend. she's done with fall ball and don't know when she'll be able to start indoors. oh well...

 

[Jim]

If the ball is in your zone and its a ball you can drive then its all or nothing on that pitch.

I completely agree. Whether it is the first pitch or the sixth of the at-bat.

I coach a 18 u travel team for college exposure and what I have discovered over and over is that the more pitches my hitters see the more runs we score. Its pretty much common sense. Make the pitcher throw your pitch. You rack up a huge pitch count you control the tempo of the game by keeping their offense off the diamond. I guarantee you if you see 35 pitches a inning you will score a ton .

There is only one way to get pitch counts up, and taking strikes is not the answer... The answer is don't make outs.

You can have three hitters in a row have five pitch at-bats but if they all end up making outs that is only a 15 pitch inning for the pitcher. Sure a six pitch inning stinks, but it's not because the hitters should have taken more pitches... They just didn't get on base. You can just as easily score 3 or 4 runs in six pitches (happens all the time).

Do coaches recognize when that happens or do they just recognize when the hitters are out in one or two pitches. No coach would tell a hitter after hitting a first pitch double... "You should have taken the first pitch!". If the do then they probably have a bit of an ego problem.

We look center and in a tight zone for up to 2 strikes and as the count goes up the zone increases in size... I often hear the phrase protect on 2 strikes. That is a defensive attitude and very out dated advice. On 2 strikes I want my hitters attacking anything close to the plate. So the key word to me is Attack .................

Tim

Sounds like your plan is a bit passive before two strikes. Then it becomes more aggressive with two strikes. As a former catcher, those hitters are easy to call a game against. Get ahead strike one and strike two, then get them to chase our pitch with two strikes.

I like to keep it simple for the players. With less than two strikes, be ready to attack a pitch in your zone. With two strikes, be ready to hit a pitch in the strike zone.

Keep it simple, the game is hard enough. Don't make any outs and I promise the pitch count will go through the roof!

 

[Jim]

In DD's case it isn't going to matter because she got another concussion over the weekend. she's done with fall ball and don't know when she'll be able to start indoors. oh well...

I'm very sorry to hear this. I hope she is alright and I hope that she stays well. Good luck.

 

[Bouldersdad]

You call it passive I call it selective. Telling batters to just not make outs In a game where you can fail 7 out 10 times make no sense to me. Look at major league hitters especially the great ones and there's no way you see them hacking at a first pitch if it's not I'n their zone. If it is a hittable strike and I'n your zone then like I said go it.

Teaching hitters to recognize and track isn't a complication of the game it's part of it.

Tim