HLP vs the High level movement pattern

[clemenslee1]

I have been trying to share the difference in the 2 movement patterns for the last 10 years. One is slower and longer.

Ok, I've always taken the way you presented it as, saying HLP does not match what pro's do. If pro's do have both patterns, then both are completely valid and legitimate in being used. For the best in the world use them.

edit: If and only if that's the case then these arguments or debates against one or the other should not be had, but should be a learning opportunity for all who are learning and or teaching

 

[TDS]

Ok, I've always taken the way you presented it as, saying HLP does not match what pro's do. If pro's do have both patterns, then both are completely valid and legitimate in being used. For the best in the world use them.

I have always stated both patterns work, but they don't match.

Here is a good example of the different patterns including the forced ttb actions.

Best example I have of how the body is moving differently.

 

[clemenslee1]

I have always stated both patterns work, but they don't match.

Here is a good example of the different patterns including the forced ttb actions.

Best example I have of how the body is moving differently.

I can agree that each pattern is a tad different in some respects.

Do you have one of that hitter on an inside pitch

Edit: what is your number one marker that allows you to know what pattern a pro is using?

 

[TDS]

Ok, I've always taken the way you presented it as, saying HLP does not match what pro's do. If pro's do have both patterns, then both are completely valid and legitimate in being used. For the best in the world use them.

edit: If and only if that's the case then these arguments or debates against one or the other should not be had, but should be a learning opportunity for all who are learning and or teaching

Agon, utilizes the lower body rear leg slips the hip pattern but does so without forced ttb.

 

[TDS]

I can agree that each pattern is a tad different in some respects.

Do you have one of that hitter on an inside pitch

Edit: what is your number one marker that allows you to know what pattern a pro is using?

"Swing is the shift" vs "Shift then swing"

 

[clemenslee1]

Agon, utilizes the lower body rear leg slips the hip pattern but does so without forced ttb.

So, TTB is not required for swing is the shift?

I ask because I've always read and heard stated that if one is using the HLP swing is the shift pattern, it absolutely requires TTB because of the type of or lack of leverage being created.

 

[Borrowingminds]

So, TTB is not required for swing is the shift?

I ask because I've always read and heard stated that if one is using the HLP swing is the shift pattern, it absolutely requires TTB because of the type of or lack of leverage being created.

The way I understand it, HLP maximizes one's leverage and power.

The core pattern speaks of shift, shift in the sense of COM moving forward. Certainly still FYB.

HLP does the same, but tries to distinguish "shift is the swing" as "yet back" of FYB exploding to the front side.

Otherwise they are both ABAF. No one wants that. I mean, Barry seems to be the poster child for both patterns

 

[clemenslee1]

The way I understand it, HLP maximizes one's leverage and power.

The core pattern speaks of shift, shift in the sense of COM moving forward. Certainly still FYB.

HLP does the same, but tries to distinguish "shift is the swing" as "yet back" of FYB exploding to the front side.

Otherwise they are both ABAF. No one wants that. I mean, Barry seems to be the poster child for both patterns

I'm looking at strictly through the lens of one not holding to the HLP pattern. So the hlp would only be leveraging the rear leg/hip, not both legs as a base for the core to work with. As said before by others who hold the "Core" pattern leveraging all available resources.

I would say the core pattern (WW or TDS can correct if I'm misrepresenting.) is not just looking at it from a COM moving forward perspective, its there, but they are also looking at it from all planes of motion. The big one being the S-plane.

I think I agree with your third statement, will say that the "Core" pattern also does not want to lose the rear hip/leg relationship.

 

[Borrowingminds]

I'm looking at strictly through the lens of one not holding to the HLP pattern. So the hlp would only be leveraging the rear leg/hip, not both legs as a base for the core to work with. As said before by others who hold the "Core" pattern leveraging all available resources.

I would say the core pattern (WW or TDS can correct if I'm misrepresenting.) is not just looking at it from a COM moving forward perspective, its there, but they are also looking at it from all planes of motion. The big one being the S-plane.

I think I agree with your third statement, will say that the "Core" pattern also does not want to lose the rear hip/leg relationship.

Isn't an S-plane adjustment necessary for any quality FYB movement? Magnitude dependent on stance and timing.

 

[CoachJD]

Creating this thread so Mike can keep his HLP thread on task.. So feel free to share differences in patterns.

High level movement pattern (shift then swing)

I appreciate this thread because I don't always see the "obvious" differences y'all argue about in the various other threads, and while I think certain ideas about hitting are better than others (mostly because of what I think I see), I'm not married to a philosophy necessarily. So please know that my questions are genuine and not coming from any particular side-taking.

In this Bonds clip, it looks to me like the shift then swing is the result of him being early on a breaking pitch, pausing (because he's Barry Bonds and he can adjust in a way very few humans can), being strong enough to keep his hands back, and then unloading when the ball finally arrives.

So, is this how Bonds always does it (shift then swing)? Is it a good idea to use a pitch where he was initially fooled in these discussions? Is this kind of adjustability not possible with "swing is the shift"? Are there actually even two different "styles" or are we looking at two different context-dependent movements?