Team rankings

[Nimrod]

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The OP asked where they can research where find team rankings. Flo and Extra Innings only gather information from teams that submit information, which excludes many very good teams. You also have to pay to see their subjective rankings. When I say "real" I am talking about legitimate National rankings that take into account tournaments that bring in teams from around the country. Can anyone provide a better rankings system that incorporates all of the National tournaments from different event organizers? Other posters bring up USSSA rankings. That only ranks for teams that play in USSSA tourneys which is pretty much regional except for the WFC. USFA only ranks teams that play in USFA tourneys. US Club Rankings uses finishes from USSSA WFC, PGF, USA Softball, Triple Crown, States (TCS). Generally where the best national competition converges. So when you mention Strength of Schedule, National Tournaments should speak for itself. Have you looked at usclubrankings site? Have you seen the tournaments that they recognize. It goes back to 2012 and you can following each team, year by year. There is absolutely no Subjectivity to it. The rankings are based on finishes in those tournaments with an algorithm calculated. Whereas Extra Innings and Flo is ALL Subjective.

I haven't looked at the usclubrankings site. I trust your assessment that it achieves what it sets out to do and is better than the others you mention. Also, when I asked what your first sentence meant in a previous post, I didn't mean that to be snarky. I just couldn't understand it. It read like it was missing a word, or I just couldn't figure it out. Apologies if that came across as ''What the heck are you talking about?"'

To your question, can anyone provide a better ranking system than the one you provide? IMO, yes, most definitely. A more robust rankings model would recognize and reward a team that went 2-2 in a national - losing to the eventual finalists by 1 run apiece - and also sniff out a lesser team that went 5-2 vs. an easier draw, for example. It would also reveal a stronger team that didn't play as many of these bigger tournaments but proved itself within the limited opportunities that it had. Computer models like Sagarin or Massey don't have to be told how good a tournament is. They will prove or disprove those theories.

I don't mean to criticize the rankings you speak of, as they apparently accomplish all they set out to accomplish. It's easy to see how it works and what it rewards. But I am saying that if someone wanted to spend more time with the project of ranking the nation's best teams, they could be improved upon significantly, IMO.

 

[Nimrod]

I can think of a team locally that was pretty good over the past several years with an awesome Game Changer record. BUT they never played any of the point qualifying tournaments and pretty much played the Hittin' Kittens every weekend.

The North Carolina site that I mentioned (unfortunately was a pay site and took 2020 off, called Beast & Destroy) would rank a team like that correctly. You'd have teams that were 33-8 ranked No. 59 in the state and teams that were 17-21 ranked No. 21. And that's without ''telling'' the computer which tournaments were stronger than others. The evidence of hundreds of scores will tell the truth in the end. That's the kind of model that could be applied nationally, but the challenge is getting all the scores at all levels, which isn't realistic. But even computing just the scores of bigger tournaments alone would reveal some key things that a ''rounds advanced'' algorithm won't.

 

[Orange Socks]

I haven't looked at the usclubrankings site. I trust your assessment that it achieves what it sets out to do and is better than the others you mention. Also, when I asked what your first sentence meant in a previous post, I didn't mean that to be snarky. I just couldn't understand it. It read like it was missing a word, or I just couldn't figure it out. Apologies if that came across as ''What the heck are you talking about?"' Well, what are you waiting for? Go check it out. LOL.

To your question, can anyone provide a better ranking system than the one you provide? IMO, yes, most definitely. But where is it today? My point is, for TB rankings, this is the best that we have right now. A more robust rankings model would recognize and reward a team that went 2-2 in a national - losing to the eventual finalists by 1 run apiece - and also sniff out a lesser team that went 5-2 vs. an easier draw, for example. The tournament bracket finishes take care of that. Points are awarded on how you finish. If you win Boulder IDT-you are well awarded since it is one of the most competitive field of teams assembled. I would put less emphasis on TCS Sparker/Fireworks since the field is not as deep as Boulder IDT. It would also reveal a stronger team that didn't play as many of these bigger tournaments but proved itself within the limited opportunities that it had. Computer models like Sagarin or Massey don't have to be told how good a tournament is. They will prove or disprove those theories. I really dig Massey Ratings for College Softball. It is pretty accurate for the most part. I enjoy putting D1 teams vs Good D3's to see how they stack up.

I don't mean to criticize the rankings you speak of, as they apparently accomplish all they set out to accomplish. You can't criticize if you don't look into it. So you aren't really criticizing it. It's pretty straight forward and they tell you how the rankings work. It's easy to see how it works and what it rewards. But I am saying that if someone wanted to spend more time with the project of ranking the nation's best teams, they could be improved upon significantly, IMO.
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[Vertigo]

I can think of a team locally that was pretty good over the past several years with an awesome Game Changer record. BUT they never played any of the point qualifying tournaments and pretty much played the Hittin' Kittens every weekend. They were so proud of themselves. If they didn't have their stud pitcher available, they would cancel tournaments. A few years ago they went out of state to a USA Gold qualifier tourney in which they thought they would run the table. They went 0-2 in bracket! The parents were not happy. The coaches made an obvious choice NOT to play a competitive schedule. They only played in 4 tournaments in the summer of 2019. I have a dad friend that would ask me where we were playing and then sounded despondent because they weren't playing that weekend...again! You can have a below .500 winning % and still be ranked in the top 75 as long as your are playing in the top tourneys. The difference is, you are playing the toughest teams week in week out with college coaches watching(not this year...lol).

Oh yeah. I know of a local team that does this all the time - and does professional write-ups after each tourney that they win on their web site - “It was a VERY hot day, but our team was hotter........” - you get the idea.

Sadly, I know a few of their kids want to play in college but they play U-Trip every.single.weekend. They are 16U and brag about beating 18U teams. They are smart, since they are 16U A and they will enter 18U B tourneys to win. Looks great on GC and on the UTrip site but will not get their players on a college team.

 

[radness]

The OP asked where they can research where find team rankings. Flo and Extra Innings only gather information from teams that submit information, which excludes many very good teams. You also have to pay to see their subjective rankings. When I say "real" I am talking about legitimate National rankings that take into account tournaments that bring in teams from around the country. Can anyone provide a better rankings system that incorporates all of the National tournaments from different event organizers? Other posters bring up USSSA rankings. That only ranks for teams that play in USSSA tourneys which is pretty much regional except for the WFC. USFA only ranks teams that play in USFA tourneys. US Club Rankings uses finishes from USSSA WFC, PGF, USA Softball, Triple Crown, States (TCS). Generally where the best national competition converges. So when you mention Strength of Schedule, National Tournaments should speak for itself. Have you looked at usclubrankings site? Have you seen the tournaments that they recognize. It goes back to 2012 and you can following each team, year by year. There is absolutely no Subjectivity to it. The rankings are based on finishes in those tournaments with an algorithm calculated. Whereas Extra Innings and Flo is ALL Subjective.

Good read Orange Socks

 

[Orange Socks]

"Can" anyone provide a better rankings system that incorporates all of the National tournaments from different event organizers?
I realize that I phrased my question incorrectly. It should have read "Does anyone provide a better rankings system..."

And yes Someone CAN but USClubrankings.com DOES provide the rankings right now. I need to go back to playing with Massey Rankings. Lol.

 

[Nimrod]

"Can" anyone provide a better rankings system that incorporates all of the National tournaments from different event organizers?
I realize that I phrased my question incorrectly. It should have read "Does anyone provide a better rankings system..."

And yes Someone CAN but USClubrankings.com DOES provide the rankings right now. I need to go back to playing with Massey Rankings. Lol.

Yeah, no real disagreements with your last two posts. I'm not sure there's a big need for 'Massey-like' ratings for the national teams, but just saying they would add some clarity that's beyond 'standings' based on finishes. The N.C. ratings worked really well for a state, because by the end of summer, there's a lot of interaction among teams, and those teams are pretty stable, but rating the top 50 national teams is a bit tougher because of limited interaction and also the fact that national teams are probably more likely to show up with different rosters from one tournament to the next. I might be off base here, but my DD was in one of those org's a few years back, and they had two 18U and one 16U team, but for any national event, it might be a mixture of the three. It's harder to define what a ''team'' actually is for some of those national outfits.

 

[padres411]

I’m trying to research teams where would I go to find their rankings

I just ran across this site. Seems to be pretty good - https://www.travelsoftballrankings.com/

 

[ang2bmd]

I just ran across this site. Seems to be pretty good - https://www.travelsoftballrankings.com/

This provided a good laugh ...second team listed in IL I've never even heard of. Alabama lists 2 bolts team neither of which is the best of the bolts team. It's been tried....truth is there are a handful of top teams and any given day they fall in a different order.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Mmrichard]

I just ran across this site. Seems to be pretty good - https://www.travelsoftballrankings.com/

unless you live in the northeast.