- Jun 18, 2010
- 2,623
- 38
What do you think of Finch's drive mechanics here? I notice how her hips lower as they move forward and her pivot leg flexes.
Drive Mechanics
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- Jun 18, 2010
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Would you say Amanda does not quite reach the desired sprinter's position?
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Knightsb,
Finch is like Osterman... you can see their hips actually thrust forward at TOB. Like most top level pitchers, TOB (top of backswing) is their cue to get vertical (that is... spine straightened). Finch is a cool study of this, because you can actually see her drive foot come forward off the plate. This motion... along with the straightening of her spine as she reaches TOB... are what cause that thrust. It's really cool... in that if you freeze frame that gif, you can see the Wall Sprint posture (shin angle, dorsi-flexion, and the lean). This puts her Achilles and calf (stride leg) on stretch... and really helps facilitate getting her ridiculously long stride in motion. Thank you for sharing that .gif... added that one to my collection!
Amanda... on the other hand... utilizes something that I've never really liked... and that I would never recommend for someone newer to pitching... which is that extreme bend at the waist. I encourage a backswing with little to no bend. As you pointed out, she never reaches a straightened spine until later in the pitch. She's almost bent into a 90-degree angle at TOB. Knowing what we do now about the female anatomy and physiology, it's a difficult angle to overcome... Here's a little .gif I threw together.
1st frame is the bend.
2nd frame is the achilles/calf stretch of the stride leg... you see that the initial bend keeps her about 30-35 degrees from upright...
3rd frame is the sprinters position you asked about. Although she still hasn't straightened her spine, you can see that she's hitting all of the other important angles (IMO)
4th frame is maximum stride extension angle (mentioned in previous posts... this is really important, IMO.
5th frame shows how she was strong enough to get in a good spine angle at TOC (top of circle).
6th frame shows how she has held that angle (very important) at 9 o'clock.
Last frame shows point of release, and her maintaining the proper posture.
Thanks for sharing... hope I answered your questions. ~JS
Finch is like Osterman... you can see their hips actually thrust forward at TOB. Like most top level pitchers, TOB (top of backswing) is their cue to get vertical (that is... spine straightened). Finch is a cool study of this, because you can actually see her drive foot come forward off the plate. This motion... along with the straightening of her spine as she reaches TOB... are what cause that thrust. It's really cool... in that if you freeze frame that gif, you can see the Wall Sprint posture (shin angle, dorsi-flexion, and the lean). This puts her Achilles and calf (stride leg) on stretch... and really helps facilitate getting her ridiculously long stride in motion. Thank you for sharing that .gif... added that one to my collection!
Amanda... on the other hand... utilizes something that I've never really liked... and that I would never recommend for someone newer to pitching... which is that extreme bend at the waist. I encourage a backswing with little to no bend. As you pointed out, she never reaches a straightened spine until later in the pitch. She's almost bent into a 90-degree angle at TOB. Knowing what we do now about the female anatomy and physiology, it's a difficult angle to overcome... Here's a little .gif I threw together.
1st frame is the bend.
2nd frame is the achilles/calf stretch of the stride leg... you see that the initial bend keeps her about 30-35 degrees from upright...
3rd frame is the sprinters position you asked about. Although she still hasn't straightened her spine, you can see that she's hitting all of the other important angles (IMO)
4th frame is maximum stride extension angle (mentioned in previous posts... this is really important, IMO.
5th frame shows how she was strong enough to get in a good spine angle at TOC (top of circle).
6th frame shows how she has held that angle (very important) at 9 o'clock.
Last frame shows point of release, and her maintaining the proper posture.
Thanks for sharing... hope I answered your questions. ~JS
- Jun 18, 2010
- 2,623
- 38
JS, thank you for that detailed explanation.
Is HT (Hip Thrust) at TOB(Top Of Back-swing) what you are looking for?
javasource
6-4-3 = 2
Knightsb,
First and foremost, I’m looking for a ‘Posture Point’. So at TOB, I shoot for no bend at the waist… as by doing so, reaching a good posture at TOC and throughout the pitch is much easier. Secondly, I want the weight shift from stride to drive to be a quick and efficient transfer. I’m not a huge fan of rolling starts… or gradual shifts in weight from leg to leg… as I believe this creates timing issues… and I find that most pitchers end up addressing this with a much longer backswing… as opposed to accelerating the transfer of weight. To me, the latter is better…
In this last post of yours, you used two of my favorite model pitchers. In all three examples, pay attention to the stride leg during the backswing… it stays straight while the pitcher uses their head position to generate forward momentum. They use a bend at the waist to do so… I’m ok with this to a certain degree in beginners… but as long as the bend does not prevent them from getting vertical/straightened (see Amanda, above). If they bend at the waist… I’d prefer that is assists them in getting the lean started.
Truth is, many younger girls aren’t going to display nearly as much athleticism and strength to overcome a severe bend… so less is better when beginning – and I’m a huge believer in minimizing unnecessary motions. I usually find that as a girl matures into drive mechanics, the resulting coordination and strength that develops, usually results in the pitcher making a series of timing adjustments with their pre-motion. If they transfer weight efficiently already, this usually results in a lengthening of their backswing. This is not a rule in any shape or form… just an observation over the years. As such, I limit backswings and bending when working with a younger girl to an ‘as needed’ basis.
Pay special attention to the heel of the stride foot in your latest gifs. It stays on the ground until backswing peak while the leg remains straight. This is the stretch I’m referring to… of the Achilles and the calf muscle. This is one of the recently discussed (activations) that are necessary… Anyway, you’ll find that at the moment the heel lifts off the ground,
1) TOB is reached
2) The DRIVE FOOT SLIGHTLY STEPS FORWARD
3) The hips thrust forward
4) the leg-to-leg transfer of weight immediately happens
So… another long response… but I hope you see why… Hip thrust happens… but I find establishing the lean, the stretch of the heel and the slight step forward with the drive foot… create the hip thrust… BECAUSE… they allow for an efficient and quick transfer of weight/energy from the stride to drive foot.
First and foremost, I’m looking for a ‘Posture Point’. So at TOB, I shoot for no bend at the waist… as by doing so, reaching a good posture at TOC and throughout the pitch is much easier. Secondly, I want the weight shift from stride to drive to be a quick and efficient transfer. I’m not a huge fan of rolling starts… or gradual shifts in weight from leg to leg… as I believe this creates timing issues… and I find that most pitchers end up addressing this with a much longer backswing… as opposed to accelerating the transfer of weight. To me, the latter is better…
In this last post of yours, you used two of my favorite model pitchers. In all three examples, pay attention to the stride leg during the backswing… it stays straight while the pitcher uses their head position to generate forward momentum. They use a bend at the waist to do so… I’m ok with this to a certain degree in beginners… but as long as the bend does not prevent them from getting vertical/straightened (see Amanda, above). If they bend at the waist… I’d prefer that is assists them in getting the lean started.
Truth is, many younger girls aren’t going to display nearly as much athleticism and strength to overcome a severe bend… so less is better when beginning – and I’m a huge believer in minimizing unnecessary motions. I usually find that as a girl matures into drive mechanics, the resulting coordination and strength that develops, usually results in the pitcher making a series of timing adjustments with their pre-motion. If they transfer weight efficiently already, this usually results in a lengthening of their backswing. This is not a rule in any shape or form… just an observation over the years. As such, I limit backswings and bending when working with a younger girl to an ‘as needed’ basis.
Pay special attention to the heel of the stride foot in your latest gifs. It stays on the ground until backswing peak while the leg remains straight. This is the stretch I’m referring to… of the Achilles and the calf muscle. This is one of the recently discussed (activations) that are necessary… Anyway, you’ll find that at the moment the heel lifts off the ground,
1) TOB is reached
2) The DRIVE FOOT SLIGHTLY STEPS FORWARD
3) The hips thrust forward
4) the leg-to-leg transfer of weight immediately happens
So… another long response… but I hope you see why… Hip thrust happens… but I find establishing the lean, the stretch of the heel and the slight step forward with the drive foot… create the hip thrust… BECAUSE… they allow for an efficient and quick transfer of weight/energy from the stride to drive foot.
- Jun 18, 2010
- 2,623
- 38
JS, Thank you. This is very timely information. DDs PC is asking her to sit into her back-swing, which IMO promotes a false load. I have been paying close attention to your thread and what her PC is asking doesn't pass the Hanson Principal. What she wants DD to do is closer to Amanda's motion, but with her rear end starting farther back. We are going to apply the information in this thread over the next couple weeks. I'll report back on the progress. Once again, thank you for the clear and concise information. BoardMember is obviously Batman, we need super hero nicknames for you, Rick, Ken B and Star. DFP can have their own Justice League.
Edit: Oh, and OILF can be the evil arch nemesis.
Edit: Oh, and OILF can be the evil arch nemesis.
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Yes. Without a doubt, a step is illegal and should be. The refs should nail the violators and the coaches/parents should adjust teaching appropriately.
The focus of this thread is not the rule, but the fundamental mechanics that can be studied and learned from.
