PUSH the BAT or PULL the BAT

[straightleg]

From Lessons, I swing a bat weekly. Mostly slow-motion and half speed. I see the wrist working alittle bit different on the one arm swing verses the 2 arm swing.
Also from the feel of the release

From the previous comments on this thread, it is something I think makes a difference.



SL

 

[RayR]

SL, I never disputed that the bottom hand would work a little different on two hand swings compared to one hand swings....of course it would - there is another hand on the bat!

But, here is deal IMO.....if the bottom hand wants to "roll" as part of its training - the barrel will turn into the ball much quicker from the pressure being applied by the bottom hand as it is guiding the barrel to the ball....the confusion is that people can't make this work with their normal hammering bottom hand and it comes off as a sweepier path...

Using a hammer for the bottom hand is an incomplete model....a tennis racket works much better in producing the bottom hand action...the bat rolls along its length as it comes into contact....

 

[Lenski]

Totally agree Gerry. Top hand combined with bottom hand provides acceleration of the barrel to and through the ball, but the pulling of the large muscles from the front side provide both mass and acceleration.

We through statistics that the hardest and farthest hits straight away to pulled. We see it in the home run derby's all the time. We also know opposite field shots are top hand driven. If the top hand was truly the source of power most home runs would be opposite field. I never said the top hand did not do any work. It totally helps with TH/BH barrel acceleration with guidance to contact.

 

[Lenski]

Using a hammer for the bottom hand is an incomplete model....a tennis racket works much better in producing the bottom hand action...the bat rolls along its length as it comes into contact....

IMO, the bat will not roll if the front elbow is proper elevated. What kind of tennis racket back hand drills do you do? Most tennis players either want to put tremendous top spin or bottom spin on the ball so I personally would not recommend bottom hand drills that would simulate the backhand of a tennis player.

 

[straightleg]

SL, I never disputed that the bottom hand would work a little different on two hand swings compared to one hand swings....of course it would - there is another hand on the bat!

But, here is deal IMO.....if the bottom hand wants to "roll" as part of its training - the barrel will turn into the ball much quicker from the pressure being applied by the bottom hand as it is guiding the barrel to the ball....the confusion is that people can't make this work with their normal hammering bottom hand and it comes off as a sweepier path...

Using a hammer for the bottom hand is an incomplete model....a tennis racket works much better in producing the bottom hand action...the bat rolls along its length as it comes into contact....

That is what I feel. The release is alittle different.




SL

 

[RayR]

Exactly - teaching the front elbow to elevate will choke off the front arm being able to unfold through contact or to make an adjustment....you get the chicken wing pulling off finish....never said it wouldn't work on fastballs, but it lacks adjustability....it seems like you are only interested in long drive competitions instead of winning tournaments...

I use a tennis racket as a tool - we are not teaching tennis...it gives the player instant feedback on whether the bottom hand is hammering or backhanding like Wright shows in this drill....

IMO, the bat will not roll if the front elbow is proper elevated. What kind of tennis racket back hand drills do you do? Most tennis players either want to put tremendous top spin or bottom spin on the ball so I personally would not recommend bottom hand drills that would simulate the backhand of a tennis player.

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[Lenski]

page 60 "What am I driving at? Just this: Ideally for maximum power and efficiency, you want your stronger hand closer to the point of impact.....For years they tried to make people believe that a right handed swinger got his power from the left hand. BALONY....Tommy Armour said long before the others...under a NO-NONSENSE piece of instruction (for right hand hitters) that read "WHACK THE HELL OUT OF THE BALL WITH YOUR RIGHT HAND."

Ted "I think I would have been a better left handed hitter if I had not been a natural right hand"

Like I said, many MLB players are naturals but do not necessarily know how to explain what they do....lol

 

[RayR]

Would you want to elevate your elbow for this pitch? Does this hitter elevate? She can adjust to pretty good pitch because her elbow is not elevating....her hands are directing the barrel down to and up through....she is not hitting a grounder...

Set up a ball on a small cone (no more then 12" high) low and inside and have players try and hit....most players will swing around the ball and miss completely....then some will start rifling the ball foul when they do make contact....why? If your bottom hand is hammering - the elbow immediately flips up and sweeps the barrel....no way to make an inside adjustment from there....

 

[HYP]

You would be incorrect. I grew up during the Big Red Machine era and my neighbor was Cesar Geronimo. He would take me to Riverfront Stadium 10 or more times each year. I have seen some of the best to ever play the game work out: Rose, Griffey, Concepcion, Morgan, Perez, Bench, Foster......you get the point. I even got a 10 minute batting lesson from Teddy Ballgame himself. He came to Riverfront to talk, watch, and film Rose, Bench, and Morgan (ones that I remember) before a game for a documentary that followed up his book "The Science Of Hitting".

One thing I remember about each one of them off the tee...they always took the bat down at the ball off of the tee. Then, when they took live batting practice the bat path was quite different.

You are a lucky man but did you learn anything?

The part in Bold proves what I am trying to say. That is exactly how they practice and that practice leads to their game swings. If they practice differently they would have a different outcome.

 

[HYP]

Not doing the same thing here that he did in his tee drill video. Back elbow stays close to body and he's not swinging down at the ball. The barrel is on an upward plane at POC. He bends his upper body into the ball to get the pulling muscles (the front side) in position to do the "power work". If the power was generated by the top hand all he would have to do is let go of the bottom hand and drive the ball over the fence....lol. You know, like one handed pulled home runs from the bottom hand.

Kills me when someone, especially you who had all of this contact with MLB guys, disregards what the Pros say. You have seen first hand how they practice. You have heard their words. You have seen the practice swings turn into game swings but yet you doubt.

Those swings that you talk about that get hit out with the top hand off of the bat? Those swings have already been powered and gone. The bottom hand at that point is just guiding. If the top hand is the guide hand like you say. How could one hit the ball without the guide hand? How is contact made?

What actually happens is this. The top hand powers the bat. The bat is getting powered by the top hand. The bottom hand is getting in a position to direct the bat through the ball. The top hand supplies the final power and the barrel is thrown, directional by the top hand. Bottom hand is making fine directional adjustments.