Why you should use 3 speeds in pitching

[halskinner]

The 'Change ups in college' thread is kind of taking off in a few different directions talking about three speeds, who should call pitches and a few other directions.

I started talking three speeds so I will start this thread for that particular direction.

Just this old pitcher's opinion again.

A pitcher, at whatever level, uses fast, slow and a speed in between those.

1. Fast; Hitters can be trained to hit the fastest pitches you can humanly pitch.

2. Slow; Those same hitters can be trained to spot and wait for a slow change up. Obviously you want the windup to look the same as your fastest pitches, Ie; Sell the pitch. The hitters can still be taught to adjust and react in time to get a hit. The slow pitch, even when sold well, if it is 2 mph too slow for that particular batter, its hit.

3. Off speed; Using fast, slow and a speed in between those, making it also appear to be a fast pitch by the pitchers motions, AND going back and forth between the three speeds is extremely difficult for the batters to deal with because it is almost impossible to train a hitter to handle 3 speeds.

Hitters can deal with fast and slow. If all three speeds have the appearance of being fast pitches, the hitters HAVE ONY 2 CHOICES to determine exactly how fast THIS pitch is coming.

1. They can be taught to read the pitcher's mind. NOT

2. They must watch the ball travel from the pitchers hand to decide how fast it is coming and exactly when to pull the trigger and start their swing. THAT TAKES TIME THEY DONT HAVE.

By the time they decide how fast it is coming at them, it's too late to do anything about it.

Never do the same thing twice in a row and never let em know what's comin next.

 

[Greenmonsters]

The 'Change ups in college' thread is kind of taking off in a few different directions talking about three speeds, who should call pitches and a few other directions.

I started talking three speeds so I will start this thread for that particular direction.

Just this old pitcher's opinion again.

A pitcher, at whatever level, uses fast, slow and a speed in between those.

1. Fast; Hitters can be trained to hit the fastest pitches you can humanly pitch.

2. Slow; Those same hitters can be trained to spot and wait for a slow change up. Obviously you want the windup to look the same as your fastest pitches, Ie; Sell the pitch. The hitters can still be taught to adjust and react in time to get a hit. The slow pitch, even when sold well, if it is 2 mph too slow for that particular batter, its hit.

3. Off speed; Using fast, slow and a speed in between those, making it also appear to be a fast pitch by the pitchers motions, AND going back and forth between the three speeds is extremely difficult for the batters to deal with because it is almost impossible to train a hitter to handle 3 speeds.

Hitters can deal with fast and slow. If all three speeds have the appearance of being fast pitches, the hitters HAVE ONY 2 CHOICES to determine exactly how fast THIS pitch is coming.

1. They can be taught to read the pitcher's mind. NOT

2. They must watch the ball travel from the pitchers hand to decide how fast it is coming and exactly when to pull the trigger and start their swing. THAT TAKES TIME THEY DONT HAVE.

By the time they decide how fast it is coming at them, it's too late to do anything about it.

Never do the same thing twice in a row and never let em know what's comin next.

I agree with everything you've said here Hal except the bold, which advises that if you've thrown an Off-Speed pitch the next pitch should be Fast or Slow. That's only 2 speeds for a batter to worry about for the next pitch. IMO, throwing the same pitch back to back is one of the most effective things a pitcher can do to get into a batter's head. If you've made a hitter look foolish and swing and miss badly, you want them to have to continue to think about that SAME pitch, as well as the pitcher's other pitches. In other words, X is greater than X-1 and you want the hitter to have to worry about the pitcher's FULL arsenal EVERY pitch rather than a limited subset of the arsenal.

 

[halskinner]

I agree with everything you've said here Hal except the bold, which advises that if you've thrown an Off-Speed pitch the next pitch should be Fast or Slow. That's only 2 speeds for a batter to worry about for the next pitch. IMO, throwing the same pitch back to back is one of the most effective things a pitcher can do to get into a batter's head. If you've made a hitter look foolish and swing and miss badly, you want them to have to continue to think about that SAME pitch, as well as the pitcher's other pitches. In other words, X is greater than X-1 and you want the hitter to have to worry about the pitcher's FULL arsenal EVERY pitch rather than a limited subset of the arsenal.

Yeah,, we still have different movement pitches and locations adding to the mix. Different wind ups and other stuff too. Even if they expect a fast or slow after medium, ya dont have to make it look exactly the same.

When I said "the same thing", I wasnt just reffering to speed.

 

[X pitcher]

When should girls start using 3 speeds? What age or level? Are you just talking College pitchers?
Top speed with vertical movement. Great change up with around 15 mph less speed and all spin and movement. Then you want to throw a let up or off speed pitch some where in between? I'd stay away from 3 speeds, and challenge with speed and vertical movement at a location to control the game. A great deceiving change up will keep hitters from digging in. An off speed pitch just gives the hitter a better chance to hit the ball. Two speeds is all that is needed if a pitcher has a killer change up.

 

[JAD]

My DD pitching coach is starting to teach three speed variation at 14.

 

[sluggers]

Hal, when a catcher call the game, the catcher uses a "waggle" to indicate an off speed, correct?

 

[halskinner]

Ray,

If you are saying a quick wiggle of all 4 fingers, that is what 'I' had my catchers use that sign for a 'slow' change up. I had a few great catchers and if I decided to throw an off speed whatever was called, they just had to deal with it and catch it. If they expected fast and got off-speed instead, that was never a problem. If they expected slow and got fast, THAT WAS a problem.

As a little side note to the calls here. Here is something I have seen many times and had to mention it to a copacxh during the game. If the catcher is a thin gal, they can hold their fingers down between their legs to conceal the sign. However, and pardon me here, their fingers can be tyoo long or their bootie is too skinny and anyonre from behind the backstop or just to the side can see the sign. Just sayin.

 

[eastcoast]

Agree Hal, yesterday we were against one of the best team in the NE . Even it was 10U atleast 5 girls in that team looked like 16-18 year olds. Our starting pitcher for that game was fast but they were able to pick her apart in second innings. Then my DD went in essentially finished one hitter against them for next three innings. All in all I have to say my DD is not super fast( 47 tops) by any means. But she pitched very smart. She never threw same speed/same location between pitches. She pitched all over the plate and kept them off balance.

 

[halskinner]

Agree Hal, yesterday we were against one of the best team in the NE . Even it was 10U atleast 5 girls in that team looked like 16-18 year olds. Our starting pitcher for that game was fast but they were able to pick her apart in second innings. Then my DD went in essentially finished one hitter against them for next three innings. All in all I have to say my DD is not super fast( 47 tops) by any means. But she pitched very smart. She never threw same speed/same location between pitches. She pitched all over the plate and kept them off balance.

And I have no doubt she had a blast doig it too

 

[halskinner]

My DD pitching coach is starting to teach three speed variation at 14.

Smart coach. I started my students on 3 speeds at 10yo.