right elbow up or against body (rhb)

[coachdan]

I can understand the quickness factor of having the elbow down but to generate max power you need to create some seperation.

I don't like to elbow up if it at a 90 deg angle. I do however like to see seperation between the ribcage and the elbow at toe touch. Then the elbow will lower at heelplant to start rotation.

 

[mudbug]

interesting... so is it true then that if you do have a batter that starts with a high elbow and almsot EVERY YEAR, we have at least one, if she generally hits well, but begins having problems with her hands being too slow to the ball, a small correction (relaxing that back elbow), may help get her to contact quicker..... I see their behind on pitches and tell them to make sure they get their front foot down to heel plant a little earlier, but it seems an easier correction, at least game time, to relax the elbow....

The first thing that happens when a swing is begun is the back elbow must drop, so why raise it to start with? It results in stretch of the pectorals and anterior deltoid, which gives a stronger stretch reflex to contribute to the swing, but it also results in also having to move the arm back down as well, which takes time. The bat likewise should be facing knob forward and almost parallel to the plate, not very far back across the players shoulders. If it is, the first thing that must happen is the bat must be brought back into the necessary position, wasting time again.

loose grip on the bat also results in faster wrists and swing. many grip too tight, esp in tense situation. you will often see good hitters wiggling their fingers on the bat while waiting on the pitcher to insure they have a nice loose grip.

 

[WndMillR]

Individual style vs mechanical absolutes

First of all.... I teach elbow down.... but it is really a "style"
preference to the hitter. I have seen kids do well with a raised elbow.

The danger of a raised elbow, in my opinion, tends to enhance casting to the ball, instead of staying inside.

I focus on the hands remaining inside the left elbow. ( on a RH Hitter)
A down right elbow naturally positions the hands correctly, and allows the hands to stay inside, generating a true swing plane.

 

[kls_hittingacademy]

One thing to look at when the batter has her or his back elbow up is where it's at when there making contact. Every successful batter will have the back elbow slotted. Take a look at Mark H's clips. Where the batter starts there elbow is personal style when the elbow slots that's when the mechanics kick in. That's where people start freaking out saying either you have to keep elbow up or elbow down, it doesn't matter. I tell students that it doesn't matter where they start there hands as long as the back elbow slots to there side and they lead with there front elbow.

 

[jimginas]

One thing to look at when the batter has her or his back elbow up is where it's at when there making contact. Every successful batter will have the back elbow slotted. Take a look at Mark H's clips. Where the batter starts there elbow is personal style when the elbow slots that's when the mechanics kick in. That's where people start freaking out saying either you have to keep elbow up or elbow down, it doesn't matter. I tell students that it doesn't matter where they start there hands as long as the back elbow slots to there side and they lead with there front elbow.

understand and agree - same as stance, what matters is where her balance is and arms/hands are at heel plant, not HOW they start.

** So you are comfortable that if a batter prefers to start her elbow high, that her hands won't be slower to get to contact? Do you feel its wasted movement, and if she is willing to relax her back elbow, best for her to do so?
or do you feel it really doesn't matter at all?
** Appreciate the feedback!

 

[coachdan]

I agree with jimginas that what you do before heel plant does not really matter. If the elbow is raised and then you get it slotted by heel plant that fine and imho. If you have seperation from the elbow and the ribcage that allow you to get the hands started early and therefore will be faster to the ball than if the elbow was already lowered and not moving. Momentum is created when the elbow is raised and then lowered to the slot while perparing to swing. Something in motion tends to stay in motion or another way to look at it....it is much slower to start the hands if they are still.

 

[ifubuildit]

Elbow position

Mudbug,

While that hitter may be wiggling the fingers at the start of the swing I can promise you they will create tension in the arms during the swing and that means a firm grip on the bat. If there is no tension in the arms when you swing then your going to cast the bat out as you stated. You cannot maintain connection without tension in the arms. You will disconnect.

I teach the elbow up as many are in MLB because it loads the shoulder complex when they go into the negative move with the hands going back during the stride. My issue with the elbow down is that many hitters will start with it down then drop it even more creating bat drag.

Photo 24 of 31, Analysis

Then the coach yells out "Hey your dropping your back shoulder and popping the ball up" When in fact the position with the elbows down is the cause because the elbow gets in front of the hands coming into the slot. It is also a weaker position to be in at contact.

By raising the back elbow and teaching tension in the arms you can bring the back elbow around into the "Slot" plus have the shoulders unloading and creating more whip of the bat which will generate more bat speed.

A win win with the elbow up and they will be just as quick to the ball without creating bat drag.

Dana.

 

[Mark H]

Lot of good points. Part of the discussion may be definitions and semantics. Is this elbow up or down? Photo 10 of 31, Analysis

 

[ifubuildit]

The better question.

Is that a full clip of his swing?

 

[Fastpitch Trainer]

Dana, great points!

MarkH:

I would say that many of the people on the board are going to say that's an '"elbow down" for Vlad (i agree it is) and say this is what they want their girls to do.

The issue:

Forearm strength and the ability to connect the wrist and elbow to prevent bat drag in the female athlete. A very select few can go from the Vlad, elbow position and not create excess drag, when it comes to fastpitch hitters.

When working with youth hitters, it's almost impossible to go from that position, or with the elbow even closer to the side, and have the wrist of the top hand respond immediately, in a way that moves the bat in a positive direction to their hitting zone or get on plane. What I see OVER and OVER in youth hitters, is the elbow involuntarily collapses into the side, without response from the wrist of the top hand, which leads to the bat losing it's short path to the zone.

I work with my players on back elbow, wrist and barrel all have to work together when the decision to hit is made. We do have to have the back arm firm and connected so that we prevent bat drag.

While you see both, elbow up and elbow down at the pro level, I've moved more towards keeping the knob of the bat in front of, and underneath the back elbow as the decision to hit is made.

This is just one thing that I do with my kids, that we do to try and get the same swing mechanics as MLB guys, but without near the forearm strength it takes to go from an elbow down position at toe touch.

Mark Mulvany