right elbow up or against body (rhb)

[obbay]

My issue with the elbow down is that many hitters will start with it down then drop it even more creating bat drag.

That's what I've seen too.
I am typically working with non-travel, U12s and U14s and I find that sometimes you have to exaggerate the direction in order to get the desired result. I also find that for girls who only play ball in the spring, they have a tendency toward leading with both elbows and bat drag. They also need to relearn everything every spring.

As far as the girls I work with, I would call Vlad's swing an example of elbow up. The humerus doesn't need to be parallel with the ground for me to call it elbow up.

As far as adding time to the decision making process, in my case it is the exception to the rule that I have batters up against pitchers that are that fast and have that kind of control where a half-second would make a difference. still to me it's cheating the batter, perhaps enabling some semblance of success at the cost of power. Again, I'm not up against top level pitching here so the level and age may be the issue. but when I look at siggy's clips, it seems to me that those women aren't pre-slotting.

Interesting thing- after reading this thread, I pulled out Ted Williams' The Science of hitting video. The hitters he shows (1972 I think) all keep that rear elbow fairly low, but they don't specifically discuss the elbow position as a critical element of the swing.
Then again. the "science of hitting" was relatively young when that video was made.

 

[Wellphyt]

My experience with bat drag is that it is caused largely by hitters not understanding how to us their hands to get the bat started early in the swing as described by Mankin, Epstein and Williams.

I would recommend studying the barrel path of Bustos, Bonds and Williams just to name a few. Compare the barrel path to their hand path. How are they able to get the early barrel movement they do without moving their hands forward? In the hitters mentioned, can you see the early arc of the barrel back towards the catcher that Mankin has documented using slow motion video?

I can. And...IMO that backward arc early in the swing is a big key in understanding the concept of "educated hands". Or, as Ken Griffey Jr. once said, 'I always know where my barrel is at' (might not be an exact quote, but very close).

I'm extremely paranoid when it comes to anyone who mentions using the hands in the swing. Any coach who starts talking to young players about using their hands when hitting, runs the risk of creating an "armsy" hitter that extends their arms into contact. However, my experience leads me to believe that the hands do more than just, hold onto the bat. And...if hitters aren't taught how to use their hands, more often than not you wind up with hitters who push the barrel towards the ball, instead of turning the barrel into the ball.

 

[ifubuildit]

My experience with bat drag is that it is caused largely by hitters not understanding how to us their hands to get the bat started early in the swing as described by Mankin, Epstein and Williams.

I would recommend studying the barrel path of Bustos, Bonds and Williams just to name a few. Compare the barrel path to their hand path. How are they able to get the early barrel movement they do without moving their hands forward? In the hitters mentioned, can you see the early arc of the barrel back towards the catcher that Mankin has documented using slow motion video?

I can. And...IMO that backward arc early in the swing is a big key in understanding the concept of "educated hands". Or, as Ken Griffey Jr. once said, 'I always know where my barrel is at' (might not be an exact quote, but very close).

I'm extremely paranoid when it comes to anyone who mentions using the hands in the swing. Any coach who starts talking to young players about using their hands when hitting, runs the risk of creating an "armsy" hitter that extends their arms into contact. However, my experience leads me to believe that the hands do more than just, hold onto the bat. And...if hitters aren't taught how to use their hands, more often than not you wind up with hitters who push the barrel towards the ball, instead of turning the barrel into the ball.

I wont disagree with you that the hands play a role in swinging the bat. They have to move when your making your negative movement and striding forward. The" Just hold on to the bat" and swing is IMO more of a simplification of the whole learning to rotate and development of the high level swing. It has its place in the learning process. It is not unlike some who teach Mankins THT or Slaughts Skip the rock or Epsteins keep the weight back. Not liked by some but supported by others.

Ultimately its the player who as they grow older has to decide what "Feels" more natural to them. At some point they will take ownership of their swing and wont need an instructor. That is as long as they continue to be successful at the level they choose to play.

Dana.