fortheloveofsoftball12: find a known/highly successful hitting coach you are comfortable with. One of the issues I've seen with good players, is they get confused because too many people are telling them contradictory things and the player never gets consistant with one technic.. They keep changing and that hinders their progress. Find a coach and if possible, stick with that coach. (You'll have coaches in HS and college that may try and change or tweak your swing. If you are batting well, they should never do much more the TWEAK your mechanics, BUT if you are struggling, be open-minded.
right elbow up or against body (rhb)
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Amy, Don played with a friend of mine when he was with the Pirates. Don spent a little time with me to show why the mechanics he teaches works, based on the best hitters in baseball. and the fact that the only year he coached, the Tigers won the World Series while he was the hitting coach.
*** SO I also teach elbow down and predominantly use Don's reasoning, but I can see that if a batter does well after being taught to keep their back elbow up, I wouldn't change her. (I generaly tell them if you are hitting .350-.400, keep mdoing what you are doing, but if you are hitting .180, you MAY want to look at doing something different.
*** SO I also teach elbow down and predominantly use Don's reasoning, but I can see that if a batter does well after being taught to keep their back elbow up, I wouldn't change her. (I generaly tell them if you are hitting .350-.400, keep mdoing what you are doing, but if you are hitting .180, you MAY want to look at doing something different.
The inverted V is a predominant in softball. So is facing the knob of the bat forward. These are intended to result in a faster reaction/swing by eliminating wasted movement as the swing is begun. The elbow up provides more power, but is slower.
For many hitters, it may not matter. A batters other characteristics, like step timing and cocking, or pre-loading the swing may have more impact than arm position.
However, the faster the swing is, the longer the batter can wait before committing, and the better pitch discrimination a batter can have. That can be important in softball in young girls. At 40' with 60mph pitching, compared to baseball, the reaction time is less, and the ball moves more than for similar age group of boys. I think this may be how it came to be.
Once you get to the point of contact its all the same, it doesnt matter much how it gets there. Some of the best hitters have unorthodox starts to their swings that work for only them, but the finish is always the same.
For many hitters, it may not matter. A batters other characteristics, like step timing and cocking, or pre-loading the swing may have more impact than arm position.
However, the faster the swing is, the longer the batter can wait before committing, and the better pitch discrimination a batter can have. That can be important in softball in young girls. At 40' with 60mph pitching, compared to baseball, the reaction time is less, and the ball moves more than for similar age group of boys. I think this may be how it came to be.
Once you get to the point of contact its all the same, it doesnt matter much how it gets there. Some of the best hitters have unorthodox starts to their swings that work for only them, but the finish is always the same.
Jim,
Don's big thing is copying what the best do. It's the basis of his software and it's what he talked about when I watched him in an interesting impromptu debate in Houston. So...as always compare what anyone says about hitting to slow motion video of the best in the world.
Don's big thing is copying what the best do. It's the basis of his software and it's what he talked about when I watched him in an interesting impromptu debate in Houston. So...as always compare what anyone says about hitting to slow motion video of the best in the world.
obbay
Banned
I've heard that but I just don't buy it. Maybe different strokes for different folks.
When I try swinging with both elbows down, it feels like I have less control and is a weaker swing.
And what Mark said.
interesting... so is it true then that if you do have a batter that starts with a high elbow and almsot EVERY YEAR, we have at least one, if she generally hits well, but begins having problems with her hands being too slow to the ball, a small correction (relaxing that back elbow), may help get her to contact quicker..... I see their behind on pitches and tell them to make sure they get their front foot down to heel plant a little earlier, but it seems an easier correction, at least game time, to relax the elbow....
Mark,
I definitely understand his reasons, and as you say, he will show multitudes of video clips of great batters and what they all have in common, though there are other great batters that do start their stance with high elbows he doesn't use in his RVP. The rationale for slower hands to contact seems plausible, I just really don't know....
How do you work with a batter that comes to you and you notice immediately she starts her back elbow up? (I can STILL hear coaches from 20+ years ago "ELBOW UP - ELBOW UP!") If she has powerful and consistant contact, would you discuss with her she should relax the back elbow? ( I've heard coaches at clinics, say ABSOLUTELY, if you want her to be successful at the next level against much better pitching (College), she needs to change.)
I definitely understand his reasons, and as you say, he will show multitudes of video clips of great batters and what they all have in common, though there are other great batters that do start their stance with high elbows he doesn't use in his RVP. The rationale for slower hands to contact seems plausible, I just really don't know....
How do you work with a batter that comes to you and you notice immediately she starts her back elbow up? (I can STILL hear coaches from 20+ years ago "ELBOW UP - ELBOW UP!") If she has powerful and consistant contact, would you discuss with her she should relax the back elbow? ( I've heard coaches at clinics, say ABSOLUTELY, if you want her to be successful at the next level against much better pitching (College), she needs to change.)
There's stance vs arm position at heel plant-there's scapular movement to move the elbow-there's the shoulder socket...it's a complex subject which is why I didn't participate much in this thread in terms of it should be this way or that way. In my view we aren't accomplishing much with that. Question is how a particular hitter's arm action helps them get the #$%^ barrel around to quote one sage. I do agree with the goal of quickness from heel plant or first movement of the bathead into the swing plane till contact. I do agree with Don's thought of watching elite hitters. I do think that has it's limitations. I do wish Don would study video shot from the backstop view. I do wish his back ground gave him more tools for evaluating momentum. I do think in the end it comes down to the hard work of trial and error repetitions gaining a feel for what effective and efficient feels like to a particular hitter. Instruction can only hope to reduce the time that takes. I'm all for studying this stuff down to the causal details but in terms of coaching and training I think the point of diminishing returns comes pretty quickly when we start reducing the swing down to it's smallest part.
******** The RVP will break down the sub 1 second swing to details that hurt my head and I clearly don't have time to teach, NOR many of the players at our levels have patience to even hear! TOO DETAILED
I THINK many coaches OVERCOMPLICATE Softball mechanics and I can tell you my girls will tell you straight up - they start ignoring instruction that gets too detailed... Same as coaches that talk for 10-20 minutes! ALL WASTED TIME because the girls are IGNORING everything past a few minutes!
**** Its ALMOST like coaches are trying to SHOW OFF how much they know!
