Open vs Closed Pitching Style

[Mark H]

These snippets are from the 1996 Olympic Study. Both suggest an approach more closed than open for safety.

That's about follow through and arm deceleration. We are mixing two things together here. First the hip has to make it's contribution to the next segment/kineitic chain. Then the body should do what it can to avoid decelation injuries to the small muscles in the back of the shoulder.

At ball release, the position of the throwing arm is again important for reducing stress on the throwing arm. The elbow should be bent (approximately 20 degrees short of full extension). The straighter the elbow, the more force on the shoulder joint.

Can't turn over a whipping loop if there is no loop/elbow bend. Doesn't this relate to what Boardmember covered awhile back?

Finally, and possibly the most important factor in reducing shoulder distraction force, the hips should be closed at about a 45 degree angle (half way between completely open and completely closed) at the instant of ball release. Pitchers who tend to keep the hips open at ball release put a tremendous amount of stress on the throwing shoulder.

I have no problem with that but again, there are two things to consider-acceleration and deceleration. I would have liked for that to be addressed in that study.

Orientation of the stride foot also appears to be important in producing ball speed. A stride foot which is pointed toward third base (for a right-handed pitcher) at about a 10 to 30 degree angle is optimal for producing ball speed. Pitchers who tended to angle the stride foot too much (greater than 30 degrees) had slower release speeds. Another coordination factor which affects ball speed is the speed of the throwing arm as it circles through the windmill motion. At the instant of ball release, pitchers with great arm speeds tended to have lower ball velocities. Therefore, it appears that the arm circle needs to slow down prior to ball release for optimal ball speed. Two body segment contributions to ball speed also seem to be critical factors to ball velocity at the release point. The speed of the hand just prior to release should be maximal for increased ball speed. Also, those pitchers with high contributions from the elbow just prior to release tended to have lower ball speeds. Thus, proper sequencing of the segments (i.e., shoulder, then elbow, then wrist, then hand) appears to be important to pitching performance.

Larry

Sure. Kinetic chain/momentum development and tranfer. Basic.

 

[halskinner]

Originally Posted by lelwell
"Orientation of the stride foot also appears to be important in producing ball speed. A stride foot which is pointed toward third base (for a right-handed pitcher) at about a 10 to 30 degree angle is optimal for producing ball speed. Pitchers who tended to angle the stride foot too much (greater than 30 degrees) had slower release speeds."


What the report does not seem to mention, or at least not in these terms, is that a stride foot coming down at an angle that is great, this locks out the knee from having the necessary bend at landing to absorb shock and provide the resistance needed for the best ball speed.

Your knee only bends in one direction.

 

[StinkyK]

As a follow up to the original post I want to report that I had a chance to sit with the pitching coach that we were considering for the change to and while I was impressed with his understanding and knowledge of pitching/mechanics I could see that for the time being it wasn't going to work for my DD.

She was fairly successful at her first 18U showcase outing, winning her first with 5 SO, 4 hits, 1 walk & 2 runs. Second game was against a top ten finisher at 18 Gold Nationals which ended in a 2/2 tie, she didn't fair as well with 1 SO, 4 walks, 3 hits, & 2 runs. She had a good defense behind her to make up for her mistakes. She faced a line up of 7 lefthanded batters and 3 from the right side. Nerves, small strike zone, & leftys all contributed but I think there is a big sigh of relief getting through the first outing. While there will be some valley's I think she is going to do well at this level.

I will be buying a HD camcorder & editing software soon so I can post some slow mo video on here for mechanical analysis commenting.

We are still in the market for a new piching coach in SD/SO Cal area but for now we'll just put our focus into working on the mechanics and pitches she is trying to master.

 

[Hillhouse]

StinkyK... could you send me an email <houseofpitching@yahoo.com> I would PM you here but not everyone checks those and I figured this might be the best way to reach you. Thanks

houseofpitching at yahoo

 

[Coach Stan]

StinkyK, I did not know you were from the San Diego/Socal area. I like how you are researching the right pitching coach for your dd. I have been conducting pitching lessons in San Diego since 1975. If you are interested in meeting or coming to one of my lessons please go to my website FIRST NATION FAST PITCH SOFTBALL ACADEMY take a look around and if interested email me at the email address on my website or pm me here.

 

[jimginas]

interesting for me..... I've had many discussions ref this same subject. Argument for Open/Close is Ernie Banks teaches it and many pitchers years back have been very successful. How do you argue against success?

Then again, Michelle Smith, Cindy Bristow and Cheri Kemp all teach NOT to Open/Close as they prove their points with video of outstanding pitchers that don't Open/Close.

THUS my ARGUMENT that there are various REASONABLE ways to perform skills and IF reasonable in the approach, and a player practices enough, they become successful at what they do.
**NOW saying that: March 2004: Quote from Cheri Kemp:
" Jim,

The “open/close” method is still being taught. However, it is not biomechanically correct. The opening of the hips through a pivot of the back foot does not allow for contribution of the back leg by time of release of the ball, thus making the delivery inefficient. This inefficiency contributes largely to the two most common injuries in female Fastpitch softball players; back side of shoulder and lower back. Although the method seems to make sense and sounds like it would work, when pitchers pivot, they lose the drive of the back leg and rear before release of the ball. I go into detail of the mechanics in my book and video, The Softball Pitching Edge, and a fundamental video called “Putting it Together”. I am not trying to sell you anything, but explanation via e-mail is somewhat limited. I appreciate you asking the question and would love to discuss with you further if you would like.

-Cheri Kempf"

 

[Amy in AZ.]

Michelle Smith video - YouTube - Michele Smith Riseball Tip from WCWS (Coach's Clinic)

 

[jimginas]

Amy, are you far from U of A? attend Candrea's clinics? I've been out 5 years,, afraid I may miss this year.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I am not far. The news just had clips of Candrea and Wilson teaching the girls to throw overhand and play catch. Then, they taught the crow hop. The coaches really had them exaggerate it. Like - hop,hop,hop throw.

Candrea complains that the girls coming in don't know how to play catch.

I spend a lot of time with my pitcher's teaching them to throw overhand.

I think the next clinic is coming up in Oct.

 

[Mark H]

interesting for me..... I've had many discussions ref this same subject. Argument for Open/Close is Ernie Banks teaches it and many pitchers years back have been very successful. How do you argue against success?

Then again, Michelle Smith, Cindy Bristow and Cheri Kemp all teach NOT to Open/Close as they prove their points with video of outstanding pitchers that don't Open/Close.

THUS my ARGUMENT that there are various REASONABLE ways to perform skills and IF reasonable in the approach, and a player practices enough, they become successful at what they do.
"

My suggestion is twofold. One, look for the commonalities between the two groups you mentioned. Two, especially watch athletes of lesser size who still get the big results. Those will likely be the ones with greater efficiency.