IR versus "Hello Elbow"

[tjintx]

OK The "IR in the classroom" thread has me intrigued. My DD's coach teaches what I think is described here as hello elbow(wrist/elbow snap and fingers straight up as if you just let go of a bowling ball. Anyway, I am linking a VID. Just a quick-YES-you need to switch to IR training or NO- She does it naturally. I would like to hear it from one of you who does this professionally. IMO she pushes the ball but I feel her instinct is to throw it using an IR style release. Thanks TR

 

[BoardMember]

Was at the "be all you can be " clinic this past week in Cherry Hill NJ. Pitching coaches from Alabama, Texas, So Cal, LSU and a few others were there. I asked about forearm fire, I/R ect, and got the same answer from all the coaches, They mentioned it was like the new Iphone, everyone is going to it because it is different, but they do not see anyone picking up speed off of it. They still pitch the wrist snap and told me to do the same with our 14-16 year old pitchers. Has anyone acually seen proof that this works

Is this the wrist snap position the PC's at the clinic were advocating?

"New Style".........LOL......That cracked me up.........

 

[crystlemc]

Did not realize I was stepping into a bee hive. Thanks KenB, I will try the new style to see if it helps our pitchers, they are good now but they can always improve. And you are correct, the wrist snap is still being taught as I had mentioned earlier by those so called morons that only teach the top pitchers in college.

Actually, the head coaches of these teams aren't teaching their pitchers. Most have a pitching coach or consultant on staff. Some have their pitchers work with the same pitching coach they used before college.

 

[BoardMember]

OK The "IR in the classroom" thread has me intrigued. My DD's coach teaches what I think is described here as hello elbow(wrist/elbow snap and fingers straight up as if you just let go of a bowling ball. Anyway, I am linking a VID. Just a quick-YES-you need to switch to IR training or NO- She does it naturally. I would like to hear it from one of you who does this professionally. IMO she pushes the ball but I feel her instinct is to throw it using an IR style release. Thanks TR

Watch closely what happens to the ball from the 6 sec. mark direction over the top of her head (good show it position), to the 6 sec. mark as the ball just passes the top of her back shoulder. Her right elbow rotates out/up. Her hand get on top of the ball. From there she has to "correct" that position on the way down the circle back to "ball up" as she passes through the 9:00 position.

Short answer.......She does WANT to throw with I/R.......And actually does AFTER a correction in the "loading" position occurs. Eliminate the need for that correction from 12:00 down through 9:00 and you'll have improved her form and efficiency........

I'm purposely choosing NOT to comment on the leap and other less efficient positions she get into........

 

[David Carter]

OK The "IR in the classroom" thread has me intrigued. My DD's coach teaches what I think is described here as hello elbow(wrist/elbow snap and fingers straight up as if you just let go of a bowling ball. Anyway, I am linking a VID. Just a quick-YES-you need to switch to IR training or NO- She does it naturally. I would like to hear it from one of you who does this professionally. IMO she pushes the ball but I feel her instinct is to throw it using an IR style release. Thanks TR

Before the whole board comes crashing down on you let me say in the most gentle way I can that your DD MUST learn to drag her foot what she is doing is not a legal pitch.

I think you can tell her natural inclination is to follow through naturally with IR (focus on the few frames right after release) I just can't tell whether she is doing the forced upward follow through because of what she was taught or if it is just the rotation she is trying to get on that particular pitch she is throwing, others may be able to offer more insight.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

SO, my quick answer is change instructors.

 

[Ken B]

The crazy thing is that the style is not actually new. Somehow, the misconception came to be that pitchers use these commonly taught mechanics to pitch. Whip, IR, etc., is really what people have always done. Some have always known and understood, but somehow the misconception became the norm. On another sad note, if shown video of pitchers using whip/IR, the well-meaning often folks see a flaw, or find some other justification for what they see. The world has always been round, but it took many, many years to convince the masses of reality.

I've found one locally respected coach who actually took the time to review video, stills and read some info on whip/IR and is now in the process of converting a lifetime of thinking into what she currently teaches. The rest discounted, ignored or explained away anything that challenged their beliefs.

 

[tjintx]

Thank you for the feedback all, and as the board comes crashing down let me say this, it's not news to me that she has a lot of flaws. I appreciate all constructive criticism as long as NONE of it is of a personal nature toward my DD. What may or may not be news to members of this forum is that Her PC has coached a lot of girls and still is. It isn't easy to find an instructor that will teach what you are talking about on the IR thread(if you know of any in the DFW, North Texas area please PM me) . I will probably have to show her myself if I can't find anyone locally. My question is this... How much time will it take to make this transitiion
1 month? 2? 6 months? Thanks again

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Thank you for the feedback all, and as the board comes crashing down let me say this, it's not news to me that she has a lot of flaws. I appreciate all constructive criticism as long as NONE of it is of a personal nature toward my DD. What may or may not be news to members of this forum is that Her PC has coached a lot of girls and still is. It isn't easy to find an instructor that will teach what you are talking about on the IR thread(if you know of any in the DFW area please PM me) . I will probably have to show her myself if I can't find anyone locally. My question is this... How much time will it take to make this transitiion
1 month? 2? 6 months? Thanks again

If you want her to maximize her potential, I would encourage your DD to focus on getting her "palm to the sky" at 9:00 (at 12:00 she is great with the ball facing the catcher) and to drop the elbow into the slot at the right hip and have her forearm, wrist and hand rotate naturally to AND through release. If she works on some of the drills BM recommends, like the "show it and throw it" drills the transition should not be too difficult because she has a good foundation for IR.

With that said, I think the more difficult thing for her will be correcting her "leap" of the pivot foot. It is significant and I'm surprised she doesn't get called for an IP in the game.

IMO, the below video of Amanda Scarborough pitching in super slo-mo is outstanding at seeing where the hand and ball position should be at each stage of the arm circle. It should be required viewing for any professional pitching instructor teaching the dreaded "hello elbow" mechanics. It also shows the correct mechanics for "leap and drag". I don't know about whether the product they are selling is any good, but the video alone is worth its weight in gold.

Girls Softball Fastpitch Softball Training Aid - Softball Power Drive

 

[RayR]

Watching this clip - its like her brain is saying pull the ball up and then at 12 push the ball down the circle like your coach says to and her brain changes its mind and says PULLLLLLL IT DOWN if want to fire it....

What if you just told her to pull the ball around the arm circle? Nice and easy at first. Her upper arm should IR naturally if she lets it and doesn't try to pull down from 12:00. And as a bonus she will not have to slide her rear hip out of the way and would be able to use her back leg more efficiently....

OK The "IR in the classroom" thread has me intrigued. My DD's coach teaches what I think is described here as hello elbow(wrist/elbow snap and fingers straight up as if you just let go of a bowling ball. Anyway, I am linking a VID. Just a quick-YES-you need to switch to IR training or NO- She does it naturally. I would like to hear it from one of you who does this professionally. IMO she pushes the ball but I feel her instinct is to throw it using an IR style release. Thanks TR