IR versus "Hello Elbow"

[RubberBiscuit]

So this IR topic has finally sucked me in. I have been ignoring the concept to date because it didn't absorb into my thick head immediately (in true American form...)

Please be patient with this IR noob but if a pitcher is throwing a screwball does that mean automatically it does not include IR? Or is IR just a natural finish without the exaggerated hello-elbow?

 

[Ken B]

Hello elbow happens well after the whip and could be added to any pitch. IR is just using the natural rotation of the hand/forearm during the whip. I believe IR happens in every pitch and is a non-issue for 9/10 pitchers. There may be a few who are not making the most of it and could benefit by allowing it to happen. I suppose a shove change would be the only pitch that doesn't use IR.

If you're worried if a kid isn't using IR, take some slo-mo video and look at the orientation of the hand at 3 o'clock. The palm should be facing mostly upward. The elbow should be leading the hand and be bent some. If you see the palm is facing 3rd or down, you should spend some time tweaking. As long as kids aren't untaught IR with wrist flips and HE, they should be fine.

 

[Ken B]

Sorry--just realized you'd opened a new thread.

 

[softballproud]

Was at the "be all you can be " clinic this past week in Cherry Hill NJ. Pitching coaches from Alabama, Texas, So Cal, LSU and a few others were there. I asked about forearm fire, I/R ect, and got the same answer from all the coaches, They mentioned it was like the new Iphone, everyone is going to it because it is different, but they do not see anyone picking up speed off of it. They still pitch the wrist snap and told me to do the same with our 14-16 year old pitchers. Has anyone acually seen proof that this works

 

[Ken B]

Sadly, the proof is right in front of them. Every high level pitcher uses whip, or IR. If you were to view the pitchers in slo-mo from the schools you mentioned, every one will be using whip/IR.

I attended listen to a PC's lesson the other day as she had her student warm up with bowling/wrist snap/HE. She corrected the student several times and demonstrated what she wanted very slowly for the student. When the instructor threw a few pitches at full speed, she used beautiful whip/IR.

Bowling/wrist snap/HE are wive's tales that persist and die hard. Slo-mo video and stills of elite pitchers are your proof.

 

[softballproud]

Ken, I am not doubting you, I am only trying to do what is best for my daughter. This question was not asked as a whole, but during the greet and meet sessions, each one I asked seperatly, they all basically said the same thing. Just another way of throwing, just like finishing with hips closed, some good pitchers do, some dont, some are 6'3'', some are 5'6", they all throw a little different. When asked about speed, they mentioned control yes, speed no. I am going to try a little of both with my most versitle pitcher and see how it works. We do have a pitching coach in the area that is teaching it, so we will give it a try. Thank you for all your post, it is very helpful

 

[nanotech14]

Softballproud I will say it, these coaches you talked to are morons. They don't have clue, I don't care what school they are from. Even Jenny finch and her dad Doug finch try to teach that way. But when you look at video of Jenny pitching, she doesn't pitch the way she teaches. Sorry but somebody had to tell you. Wrist snaps, slamming the hip and hello elbow are a complete waste of time, complete waste of time. These coaches should be barred from coaching.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I saw a very good comparison yesterday. I had a new 17yo, that I was encouraging to have a relaxed elbow and whip through the arm circle. There was a 12-14yo on the other diamond. She was tight, rigid and straight arming into HE. Then, she gasps and grabs her shoulder. Guess, what bucket dad did? He had her keep pitching and put her right into walk throughs. She did everything she could to keep from pitching. I mean she was taking at least a minute between pitches. I so wished that I could help her.

 

[Ken B]

Morons might be a bit harsh. HE/bowling/wrist snap is everywhere. It's still almost the norm. In spite of this teaching, many good pitchers still emerge. The body/brain can ultimately overcome it. Hopefully, as more people are educated, the teaching will improve and more kids will benefit.

 

[softballproud]

Did not realize I was stepping into a bee hive. Thanks KenB, I will try the new style to see if it helps our pitchers, they are good now but they can always improve. And you are correct, the wrist snap is still being taught as I had mentioned earlier by those so called morons that only teach the top pitchers in college.