HS - Do you have your ace pitcher go for the K's or the easy gounders?

[Little Angels Softball]

There is absolutely no situation in softball where a ground ball is preferable to the defensive team over a strikeout. None. Ever.

In any situation, a ground ball (even a weak one) is always preferable to the offensive team over a strikeout. Always.

Case closed.

 

[Greenmonsters]

I actually think you might be right for some teams and some girls. I know our rec team is shocked...I mean SHOCKED when my DD has the audacity to let a girl make contact. They proceed to do a Benny Hill impression while they scramble for the ball, bump heads, throw into the bleachers and generally run amock while a slow grounder turns into a home run. Her TB team is constantly ready for a grounder though so as a result they make the plays. I do feel for her outfielders though, they only get to clean up singles into the infield holes. I am going to tell her to leave some meat hanging high to get the involved.

Still want the K though.

The K is good, no doubt! At younder ages, most Ps get Ks with speed. If the hitters improve at a pace more quickly than the P's speed does, there will come a time when they can't get away with just speed. At that point, it becomes about location, speed, change of speed, movement, and pitch sequencing. The goal of winning today and relying on power to produce Ks can sacrifice the development of these other critical components that will someday be neeeded! Short-term v. long-term objectives/sucess - what's the proper balance?

 

[daddiox2]

I would hope this would be the strategy for just about all travel teams, not just young ones. I don't think of it necessarily as a chance to give fielders work, but a way to get all the girls in a game so they can develop. I know there can't be full-time starting spots for 12 girls when there are only nine positions, but the kids on all but the highest echelon teams need to play if they are going to get better and any coach worth his or her salt can find ways to get every kid into a game or two every weekend. IMHO, it needs to be a priority.

Heck, this past weekend my team managed to live long enough to get in six games. I had complete games by four different pitchers, three different catchers and a different girl at every position except 2B and 1B, and only those two were different because we had a girl out who would have allowed me to spell those starters, too. I did all this with just 11 girls and we had a fantastic tournament. I feel so strongly about this that it annoys me when we come up against teams that play only their best nine in every game. In fact, that happened this weekend in a semi when we came up against the toughest team in the tourney ... they played nine and I said I was going to hit 'em all if they didn't mind. Of course, they didn't mind at all.

I agree with your style, btw.

My eyes have told me that HS is not the same. But I like the way you are running your team, its the best way to prepare the players to continue to grow.

 

[Momo'sDad]

Here's my semi-complete and very uninformed opinion:

1) Parents at the 8u & 10u levels fall in love with the K and the 2+ K/IP stats their young superstars post in rec.

2) Some parents never get away from that love affair, despite the fact that the hitters start getting a LOT better in 12u.

3) A HS or college coach loves the K, because they normally only have to think about winning 1, maybe 2 games a day, which decreases the likelihood of overworking the pitcher.

4) While you coach to win 1 game at a time, a TB coach has to guide their team to 3 or 4 wins on Sunday to win the title, so those coaches definitely want their pitchers working as little as possible.

5) Even with #4 in mind, most #1 & #2 people won't be willing to alter their viewpoints.

6) Because the OP said that this is about HS ball, I'll hereby concede the argument because of #3 in addition to what's already been said about the K vs batted ball.

 

[marriard]

There is absolutely no situation in softball where a ground ball is preferable to the defensive team over a strikeout. None. Ever.

In any situation, a ground ball (even a weak one) is always preferable to the offensive team over a strikeout. Always.

Case closed.

It isn't that simple. You are talking about RESULTS - not what led up to the result. Sure ideally you get a K and a missed swing/no swing out however....

If TRYING for that K gets you knocked over the fence versus getting a ground ball out to end an inning from a well placed low and away pitch because you threw the right out pitch at the right time, then in that case NOT getting the K hurt you big time much more than than the 1 in 3 chance you got a K. Maybe you can throw the low and away pitch because of the threat of the K - but that is what real pitching is about.

And many a team has been fooled into thinking they are 'making good contact' when all they are doing is grounding balls into easy outs.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

For example, bases are loaded with no outs, you want to take your chance on a ball put in play or do you prefer a strikeout?

A strike out will always be preferred, but not always obtainable even with the best pitchers in the world. You also don't want a walk in this situation. Many factors come into play in pitch selection. Umpires zone, where they are in the order, previous at bats by the current batter, your defensive strengths/weaknesses.

Coaching is an educated guess after you do the "math". Like in your example, what are my odds the pitcher can strike out 3 batters consecutively? What are my odds she can induce something weak in the infield for a double play? What are my odds she can induce a a little dribble in front of the plate? Those decisions can determine getting out of an inning with no runs scored, 1 run scored, or 4+.

 

[JJsqueeze]

It isn't that simple. You are talking about RESULTS - not what led up to the result. Sure ideally you get a K and a missed swing/no swing out however....

If TRYING for that K gets you knocked over the fence versus getting a ground ball out to end an inning from a well placed low and away pitch because you threw the right out pitch at the right time, then in that case NOT getting the K hurt you big time much more than than the 1 in 3 chance you got a K. Maybe you can throw the low and away pitch because of the threat of the K - but that is what real pitching is about.

And many a team has been fooled into thinking they are 'making good contact' when all they are doing is grounding balls into easy outs.

This is a very good point. But when I think of pitcher that can get the strikeout, I am assuming she has the control needed to throw to spots, vary speeds etc. She is not just throwing fastballs that girls cannot catch up to. She is a fast, smart pitcher that has command of her location. That is the girl that gets the Ks. The girl that gets ks based on speed alone is dead meat at some point.

But the girl that can get ahead in the count, and then has the repertoire to get the K on chases, she is magic.

 

[Greenmonsters]

It isn't that simple. You are talking about RESULTS - not what led up to the result. Sure ideally you get a K and a missed swing/no swing out however....

If TRYING for that K gets you knocked over the fence versus getting a ground ball out to end an inning from a well placed low and away pitch because you threw the right out pitch at the right time, then in that case NOT getting the K hurt you big time much more than than the 1 in 3 chance you got a K. Maybe you can throw the low and away pitch because of the threat of the K - but that is what real pitching is about.

And many a team has been fooled into thinking they are 'making good contact' when all they are doing is grounding balls into easy outs.

Yes. Its chess, not checkers. But with a sledgehammer to add emphasis when required.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Yes. Its chess, not checkers. But with a sledgehammer to add emphasis when required.

nice Training Day quote....you left out the swear words though so I am disappointed.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Then this is a coaching issue because the players should be prep stepping and engaged on defense on every pitch.

(HS fans look away now) - RT, remember this is HS we are talking about......

This is not a good argument to be a ground ball pitcher, because those ground balls start finding the gaps in the infield pretty quickly, balls put in play can take bad hops, induce errors both fielding, throwing, and catching especially with fast, slappers. They also may advance the runners on base, induce a sac fly, when a strikeout is more preferable.

For most HS teams that DD has been involved with you are absolutely right. But this year, BUT it IS early, the only hits that have touched dirt were great bunts with speedy running. Some teams defenses just have that "luck" factor that goes along with them. I think DD might have one of those this year. And maybe it's best to keep feeding the defense like this....?

For example, bases are loaded with no outs, you want to take your chance on a ball put in play or do you prefer a strikeout?

Don't get me wrong. I am the DD of a dominant K pitcher (when she gets to throw her pitches), BUT this current team with it's display of solid defense has been a team high (not just a personal high) that I really enjoy (maybe just as a change of pace....). After a great defensive inning where multitudes of parents are looking around for multiple high-fives,....well that's pretty darn awesome.