HS - Do you have your ace pitcher go for the K's or the easy gounders?

[marriard]

Even the very, very best at a high level are not even close to striking out 1/2 the batters they face.

An example....

Friend of mine's DD has worked her way into being a Div 1 college #1 as freshman. I would have considered her a strike out pitcher - she throws mid-high 60's. Moves the ball well. Has a great rise and throws a nice drop/change (or whatever she calls it). This season she has 44 strike outs in 78 innings of work. That is 190 outs that were not by strike out. Her ERA is under 2.00. If she relied on the K, she would right now be sitting and watching.

Jaclyn Traina is at 1 K per inning - that means probably the best current K pitcher in college gets only 1/3 of her outs in college by strikeout - and when you take into account some games against weaker opponents - against good teams she probably needs over 1/2 her outs in these games by something other than a K.

Sarah Nevins @ USF in what you could consider a weaker league - last year was just over 1.3 K per innings. That is a LOT of K's - but still less than 1/2 her outs.

K is just one weapon on getting a batter out. You better have some other plans on how you are going to do it as well because you ARE going to be hit - and the higher level you play the more likely that is going to be.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I would flip this question and ask from the offensive side...which would you prefer, a strikeout or a ball in play? No one is going to say strikeout and You can't say on the offensive side that you prefer a ball in play and then say the same for the defensive side. Bottom line....a ball in play has the chance for bad joo joo. I watched a routine grounder turn into a home run in D1 this weekend. I think it was even a PAC-10 game. Sure the three pitch inning happens occasionally but this is just a statistical fluke, the reality is that a strikeout is the safest way to get a girl out.

If I am drafting a team and I have a choice between a girl that throws a bunch of Ks and a girl that throws a bunch of grounders, given equal ERA etc. I am choosing the strikeout pitcher.

As for rest, just have a #2 that is a groundball pitcher to keep a lid on things and spell the ace when she gives you a nice fat lead with her Ks.

Let me place one more layer on this though JJ - One could state that the K pitcher lulls the defense to sleep inducing a higher percentage of errors on the fewer balls put in play. I am not sure if I can prove this but for HS I think I have seen this.....

 

[Little Angels Softball]

Maybe in a young travel team that is considered developmental, maybe the fielders need the in-game work. Perhaps the way to do that is to let the flame thrower have her games against the toughest competition, and give innings to other pitchers against the second tier teams or the bottom of a line up or something.

I would hope this would be the strategy for just about all travel teams, not just young ones. I don't think of it necessarily as a chance to give fielders work, but a way to get all the girls in a game so they can develop. I know there can't be full-time starting spots for 12 girls when there are only nine positions, but the kids on all but the highest echelon teams need to play if they are going to get better and any coach worth his or her salt can find ways to get every kid into a game or two every weekend. IMHO, it needs to be a priority.

Heck, this past weekend my team managed to live long enough to get in six games. I had complete games by four different pitchers, three different catchers and a different girl at every position except 2B and 1B, and only those two were different because we had a girl out who would have allowed me to spell those starters, too. I did all this with just 11 girls and we had a fantastic tournament. I feel so strongly about this that it annoys me when we come up against teams that play only their best nine in every game. In fact, that happened this weekend in a semi when we came up against the toughest team in the tourney ... they played nine and I said I was going to hit 'em all if they didn't mind. Of course, they didn't mind at all.

 

[Cobb_of_Fury]

Speaking from my humble experiance and on average - the corollary posed is not always correct, Strikeout pitchers and Contact pitchers are not equal at the task;

Contact pitchers tend to have better control and movement argot less walks and BIG hits, whereas the high strike out rate girls tend to be faster throwers with less control and they tend to give up more walks and big hits.

I'm not sure that carrys through for older ages but at the 14U and younger that tends to be the pattern.
There are of course exceptions on both sides.

Plus; if you don’t trust your fielders to field then there are more important issues than your pitching.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Even the very, very best at a high level are not even close to striking out 1/2 the batters they face.

An example....

Friend of mine's DD has worked her way into being a Div 1 college #1 as freshman. I would have considered her a strike out pitcher - she throws mid-high 60's. Moves the ball well. Has a great rise and throws a nice drop/change (or whatever she calls it). This season she has 44 strike outs in 78 innings of work. That is 190 outs that were not by strike out. Her ERA is under 2.00. If she relied on the K, she would right now be sitting and watching.

Jaclyn Traina is at 1 K per inning - that means probably the best current K pitcher in college gets only 1/3 of her outs in college by strikeout - and when you take into account some games against weaker opponents - against good teams she probably needs over 1/2 her outs in these games by something other than a K.

Sarah Nevins @ USF in what you could consider a weaker league - last year was just over 1.3 K per innings. That is a LOT of K's - but still less than 1/2 her outs.

K is just one weapon on getting a batter out. You better have some other plans on how you are going to do it as well because you ARE going to be hit - and the higher level you play the more likely that is going to be.

^^^^YES. Ks in HS most often do not translate to Ks in college. That is why the overwhelming majority of HS-age pitchers need to learn to really pitch if they want to be successful in college.

 

[marriard]

conversations that never happened..

Nolan- We know you can strike everyone out but take a little off it to let the fielders get some work in.
Roger baby-Look, we love the Ks, but we pay more money for these infielders than you do for HGH and we want them to see some action.
Doc- I know you are hopped up on Coke right now but slow it down a bit and let the infield stretch their legs...

Nolan Ryan for his career was never close to 1.5 K per innings. IN his career he has right about 350 more strike outs than innings pitched. He got a lot of batters out through other means. (5386 IP/5714 Ks)

Clemens was less than 1 K per inning for his career. (4916 IP/4672 Ks)

Dwight was WAY below 1 K per inning for his career. (2800 IP/ 2293 Ks)

Not saying you don't want the K. Just saying it can't be your only plan.

And in most games, the fielders got plenty of work.

 

[Rocketech1]

The argument that you want a pitcher to induce a lot of ground balls to give your defense some infield practice is a ridiculous notion. If you want your defense to get experience fielding balls, then at practice have the coaches hit as many ground balls to the defense as you want. Unless you have a very dangerous batter at the plate who you are pitching around, the goal of the pitcher should be to use the pitches in her arsenal in an attempt to strikeout the batter. This is the safest way to get an out (assuming you have good catcher not giving up too many DTS). The secondary goal is to get the batter to swing at difficult pitches to induce a weak pop-up, weak ground ball, etc. It's not the other way around.

 

[JJsqueeze]

Let me place one more layer on this though JJ - One could state that the K pitcher lulls the defense to sleep inducing a higher percentage of errors on the fewer balls put in play. I am not sure if I can prove this but for HS I think I have seen this.....

I actually think you might be right for some teams and some girls. I know our rec team is shocked...I mean SHOCKED when my DD has the audacity to let a girl make contact. They proceed to do a Benny Hill impression while they scramble for the ball, bump heads, throw into the bleachers and generally run amock while a slow grounder turns into a home run. Her TB team is constantly ready for a grounder though so as a result they make the plays. I do feel for her outfielders though, they only get to clean up singles into the infield holes. I am going to tell her to leave some meat hanging high to get the involved.

Still want the K though.

 

[Rocketech1]

Let me place one more layer on this though JJ - One could state that the K pitcher lulls the defense to sleep inducing a higher percentage of errors on the fewer balls put in play. I am not sure if I can prove this but for HS I think I have seen this.....

Then this is a coaching issue because the players should be prep stepping and engaged on defense on every pitch. This is not a good argument to be a ground ball pitcher, because those ground balls start finding the gaps in the infield pretty quickly, balls put in play can take bad hops, induce errors both fielding, throwing, and catching especially with fast, slappers. They also may advance the runners on base, induce a sac fly, when a strikeout is more preferable. For example, bases are loaded with no outs, you want to take your chance on a ball put in play or do you prefer a strikeout?

 

[JJsqueeze]

Nolan Ryan for his career was never close to 1.5 K per innings. IN his career he has right about 350 more strike outs than innings pitched. He got a lot of batters out through other means. (5386 IP/5714 Ks)

Clemens was less than 1 K per inning for his career. (4916 IP/4672 Ks)

Dwight was WAY below 1 K per inning for his career. (2800 IP/ 2293 Ks)

Not saying you don't want the K. Just saying it can't be your only plan.

And in most games, the fielders got plenty of work.

Are you comparing MLB strikeout ratio to college softball? These three guys were phenomenal when they were on. If you never saw Doc and Clemens in their first few years with those blistering fastballs and wicked curves, or if you did not grow up watching Nolan and hoping to see that 100 on the radar then you really don't have a frame of reference on these guys. Comb all the stats you want, these were strikeout pitchers and they were definitely not looking for grounders.