HS - Do you have your ace pitcher go for the K's or the easy gounders?

[chinamigarden]

It is all about getting outs. The K is the easiest out and the very best thing for the team. Nobody has to field a grounder (one opportunity for error), make a throw (second opportunity) or catch the thrown ball (third opportunity), thus the strikeout is the easier out for the team. Next is a pop-up, then a fly ball. The ground ball is harder to convert into an out than all the others. They sometimes find holes, as well, and give no opportunity for an out.

That being said, if the pitcher cannot strike out the hitters she's facing, then the ground ball is a great strategy for her if she learns how to pitch to that type of contact. Drop-ball specialists and off-speed specialists are perfect for this and can be wildly effective with a great infield. I am reminded of the 1998 WCWS final when Amanda Scott shut out the Arizona Wildcats (who were like 51-3 at that point) and beat Nancy Evans 1-0 in the final to win that year's title. I believe Scott only had three strikeouts, and her pitch selection was something like 80% peel drops. She completely dominated the game without a bunch of strikeouts....the 'Cats knew what was coming but could only manage weak ground balls most of the time.

Rise ball specialists are sometimes better off pitching for the fly ball or pop-up if they are unable to strike out opposing pitchers.

I suppose if a girl is inclined to get ground balls based on her pitching style, then it is a good strategy for her if she cannot strike out the girls she's facing. Do what works best but never forget that the strikeout is the easiest out there is and comes with the least amount of risk.

Not sure what age group you are in, but at 14 and up a drop ball pitcher who is forcing everyone to hit a one hopper to 3rd base is having an easier time of it then one who is counting on the K. If at the end of the game the 3rd baseman is icing her arm and not the pitcher, it was an easy game.

 

[3'sDad]

With the K, the catcher needs to catch strike 3, or there is a throw to 1st base, a catch and a tage of 1st base required.....not a sure thing with DD's HS team.

I would prefer a 5 pitch inning with 2 come-backers to DD and a ground out to 2nd base.

 

[Greenmonsters]

It is all about getting outs. The K is the easiest out and the very best thing for the team. Nobody has to field a grounder (one opportunity for error), make a throw (second opportunity) or catch the thrown ball (third opportunity), thus the strikeout is the easier out for the team. Next is a pop-up, then a fly ball. The ground ball is harder to convert into an out than all the others. They sometimes find holes, as well, and give no opportunity for an out.

That being said, if the pitcher cannot strike out the hitters she's facing, then the ground ball is a great strategy for her if she learns how to pitch to that type of contact. Drop-ball specialists and off-speed specialists are perfect for this and can be wildly effective with a great infield. I am reminded of the 1998 WCWS final when Amanda Scott shut out the Arizona Wildcats (who were like 51-3 at that point) and beat Nancy Evans 1-0 in the final to win that year's title. I believe Scott only had three strikeouts, and her pitch selection was something like 80% peel drops. She completely dominated the game without a bunch of strikeouts....the 'Cats knew what was coming but could only manage weak ground balls most of the time.

Rise ball specialists are sometimes better off pitching for the fly ball or pop-up if they are unable to strike out opposing pitchers.

I suppose if a girl is inclined to get ground balls based on her pitching style, then it is a good strategy for her if she cannot strike out the girls she's facing. Do what works best but never forget that the strikeout is the easiest out there is and comes with the least amount of risk.

I don't disagree, but my point is that college may be too late to learn how to get batters out without strikeouts. In HS, you often can pitch around a couple of good hitters and simply overpower the others and be very successful. You don't want to have to learn a new approach to getting good hitters out in college, which can be a tough learning environment that has a very limited tolerance for failure.

 

[softball88]

My DD goal is 21 pitches per game. Her best is 38. She throws 56-58 at 14u but has good movement. I'll take low pitch counts and easy innings any day.

 

[softball88]

Daddiox2 used my crash Davis line.

 

[Little Angels Softball]

I don't disagree about the ground balls. if a girl cannot strike out the hitters she is facing, it is a great option if she can learn to pitch to that type of contact and has a defense to support it.

However, it is easier and better for the team if you strike a girl out. I have coached 8U though 16U A and at each level after 10U there is less drama with a strikeout than with any other out. I have had some ridiculously good infields during this time, and I'll still take the strikeout any time I can get it. Once the catcher has the ball, it simply leaves no opportunity for error, and the opposing girl just goes and sits down with no other work needed. If a "hitter" never becomes a "runner," she simply cannot hurt your team in any way. It is impossible. If she does become a runner, then possibility exists.

If you don't believe this, take a look at the stats of several leading pitchers. There will of course be exceptions, but the vast majority of these winning, low-ERA pitchers will have high strikeout averages, which will then translate into lower batting averages against, fewer hits against, fewer runs against, fewer errors per 7 innings from her defense, etc., etc., etc. .... and more wins.

I am not saying that a ground ball pitcher is bad or that one can't be successful. Quite the contrary. I have seen plenty, and a real master like Amanda Scott could make even one of the strongest teams in college softball history look silly and overmatched. I am just saying most of the household names you know are high strikeout pitchers and their teams are successful because of it.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

Not sure what age group you are in, but at 14 and up a drop ball pitcher who is forcing everyone to hit a one hopper to 3rd base is having an easier time of it then one who is counting on the K. If at the end of the game the 3rd baseman is icing her arm and not the pitcher, it was an easy game.

From my perspective there comes a later point again in 18U gold and big D1 college where the tables turn again back to the elite riseballer. From what I see elite riseballers go farther in college world series than elite dropballers (just comparing rhp's - lhp's like Rickets is a whole nutha discussion)

 

[Little Angels Softball]

From my perspective there comes a later point again in 18U gold and big D1 college where the tables turn again back to the elite riseballer. From what I see elite riseballers go farther in college world series than elite dropballers (just comparing rhp's - lhp's like Rickets is a whole nutha discussion)

Quite correct. The elite pitchers have high strikeout totals and get other outs from fly balls, which are easier to convert than ground balls.

 

[RubberBiscuit]

I don't disagree, but my point is that college may be too late to learn how to get batters out without strikeouts. In HS, you often can pitch around a couple of good hitters and simply overpower the others and be very successful. You don't want to have to learn a new approach to getting good hitters out in college, which can be a tough learning environment that has a very limited tolerance for failure.

I side with your comment here GM. It reminds me of last years "best" HS pitcher around here where she never learned another pitch except for a fb and a drop-curve. This very accurate outside zone combo worked soooooo well for her in HS but when she got to D3 college ball she got her backside lit up with this limited selection.

I always wondered if this girls parents and moreso the very experienced hs coach were ever honest with her on her impending ineffectiveness when she got to college......

So even though I am liking the "team defense" nature of this year so far I would NEVER allow a pitcher, with a big college playing dream, to sit complacent on a limited pitch selection (ie can't strike out a good batter).

 

[ms244]

One of our first coaches gave us his strategy when it comes to pitchers being a true "defensive" player. You play 7 innings with 3 batters per inning = 21 batters per game. It is the job of the pitcher to get 50% or 10-11 batters out by themselves. Either with strikeouts or infield pop flies etc. The other 50% of the outs need to come from your defense behind you. You shouldn't rely on your pitcher to get more than 50% of your outs per game.