High School Coaches and Summer Team -- DD's Dilemma

[Doug Romrell]

Doug, I understand where you are coming from. But, you want the HS coach to react in a certain way. You can't control how he will react.

Your DD has to make a decision, and then tell the HS coach of her decision.

I understand she is unhappy, but a large part of this is her own doing...i.e., she failed to tell the coach when the coach first asked her. She has to go talk to him.

IMHO, it is a bad idea to go with your DD. If you do, it will look like *you*, not her, are doing this.

I have no plans of going with her if she does go talk to him.

Further, while she is 16, she is still a minor who does life under my roof. There will be at least some involvement between the coach and us, her parents. As I have said, I am still nudging her in the direction of the HS summer team. She is fighting that, but still wants to do HS ball next spring.

Yes, she did commit a couple of months ago, but it's less bad to bail now after the first practice than bail a 3-4 weeks from now when they are right in the middle of their summer season.

 

[riseball]

...she failed to tell the coach when the coach first asked her....

I would hope that the High School coach would have a bit more class than to approach players and specifically ask them to play on his summer team. That is pretty unethical.

 

[Doug Romrell]

I would hope that the High School coach would have a bit more class than to approach players and specifically ask them to play on his summer team. That is pretty unethical.

I don't know about unethical, but any player who makes the HS team is asked as part of the making-the-team process to play on their summer team. Personally, I think it is a bit overboard with control of these young lady's lives. DD is genuinely afraid to go discuss this with him because he will, whether he intends to or not, try his best to make her feel guilty and will implicitly bark at her for not worshiping at his altar. As I've said, I think he's a good game coach. I think he's done a decent job of improving summer ball as a feeder program for his HS softball. But contrary to the patronizing me and what I do, he does not like me somewhat on his turf. And, contrary to his patronizing me, I don't think he believes the players he has that I have coached learned anything of value. That is what I, myself, do not like. My DD, now having been around it, also does not like it. I guess she's a bit like her father in that regard.

The bottom line is this.... Aside from the fact that she had committed, yet it is still just prior to the start of the summer-ball season, DD wants a break from that mindset. Problem is, I'm really the only other option nearby, and we're not travelling far for the even better options. She's adamant about not talking to him face to face because she's afraid of him. This is a legitimate concern she has. I told her that maybe she should offer to go with them this first tournament to see how it goes. She sent him a message stating such, but his response is still a demand to come and discuss with him. She pretty much knows what he's going to lay on her and that is what keeps her from doing it. It's looking more and more like she's not playing summer ball with HS coach's summer team(s). I guess she'll have to deal with the ramifications next spring should she decide she's trying out for HS ball.

I now see why some people say that HS softball isn't the wherewithal. Of course, then again, neither is TB for that matter.

 

[riseball]

I don't know about unethical, but any player who makes the HS team is asked as part of the making-the-team process to play on their summer team. Personally, I think it is a bit overboard with control of these young lady's lives. DD is genuinely afraid to go discuss this with him because he will, whether he intends to or not, try his best to make her feel guilty and will implicitly bark at her for not worshiping at his altar. As I've said, I think he's a good game coach. I think he's done a decent job of improving summer ball as a feeder program for his HS softball. But contrary to the patronizing me and what I do, he does not like me somewhat on his turf. And, contrary to his patronizing me, I don't think he believes the players he has that I have coached learned anything of value. That is what I, myself, do not like. My DD, now having been around it, also does not like it. I guess she's a bit like her father in that regard.

The bottom line is this.... Aside from the fact that she had committed, yet it is still just prior to the start of the summer-ball season, DD wants a break from that mindset. Problem is, I'm really the only other option nearby, and we're not travelling far for the even better options. She's adamant about not talking to him face to face because she's afraid of him. This is a legitimate concern she has. I told her that maybe she should offer to go with them this first tournament to see how it goes. She sent him a message stating such, but his response is still a demand to come and discuss with him. She pretty much knows what he's going to lay on her and that is what keeps her from doing it. It's looking more and more like she's not playing summer ball with HS coach's summer team(s). I guess she'll have to deal with the ramifications next spring should she decide she's trying out for HS ball.

I now see why some people say that HS softball isn't the wherewithal. Of course, then again, neither is TB for that matter.

Speaking from personal experience with my DD at 16 she needs the innings and the work. Yeah it may not be the perfect environment but so what? Have some fun and keep helping her get better.

As to the ethics issue I liken it to a boss who invites their subordinates to his kids birthday party and BBQ. It is strictly optional and no need to bring a gift. Of course everyone else will be there...

I have to think that maybe she never really wanted to do it in the first place but felt compelled because he is the HS coach. Properly handled he should have made it an open invitation to everyone and not approached individual players. And then gone to great lengths to make sure that all understood that the most important thing was that they play and get better regardless of who it was with. Because that should be the desired outcome.

 

[Doug Romrell]

As to the ethics issue I liken it to a boss who invites their subordinates to his kids birthday party and BBQ. It is strictly optional and no need to bring a gift. Of course everyone else will be there...

Great point, and that is exactly what this is!

I have to think that maybe she never really wanted to do it in the first place but felt compelled because he is the HS coach.

Maybe.... Maybe not.... I think it might have something to do with the fact that she was on varsity this past HS season and got to experience him up close and more personal. It did take some of the fun out of it. I see his problem in this regard as part of his problem with risk management. Yes, you want a player to understand that she has made a mistake, but he does it in such a up-in-your-face and threatening manner. She can handle it for the most part, but wants a break from that mindset. I'll tell you what..... HE WOULD NOT LIKE HER FEELING THAT WAY AT ALL, and would likely challenger her on that, as I don't think he sees himself as being overboard that way. She simply wants to get away from that during the off season.

Properly handled he should have made it an open invitation to everyone and not approached individual players. And then gone to great lengths to make sure that all understood that the most important thing was that they play and get better regardless of who it was with. Because that should be the desired outcome.

While it might be stated in a way to seem as an open invitation, what it really is is a snatching them up so no one else taints them, which is absurd! I like the idea of players getting exposed to different coaching philosophies such that they glean the best from all of them.

For me, personally, the issue I have is the ownership mentality he has--essentially "If you're gonna play high school softball, YOU WILL PLAY SUMMER AND FALL BALL WITH ME!"

Let me keep people straight in this regard.... I am still nudging her toward his summer team. She is the one who wants out of his program during the summer to catch her breath and have more fun, or maybe less tension.

 

[sluggers]

Yes, she did commit a couple of months ago, but it's less bad to bail now after the first practice than bail a 3-4 weeks from now when they are right in the middle of their summer season.

My point is that every day she waits, she makes it more difficult on her and the coach. Vacillating isn't helping anyone.

I would hope that the High School coach would have a bit more class than to approach players and specifically ask them to play on his summer team. That is pretty unethical.

Since there are regional differences, it is difficult to draw that conclusion without more. In some states, a HS will have a summer baseball team and the kids are allowed to play on a travel team as well. (Illinois even has an unofficial summer tournament for HS teams baseball teams.)

Before there was a travel team every other block, it was very helpful for a HS coach to run a summer team. My DDs played on two teams during the summer...the HS summer team that played in a Class "B" league and on "A" travel teams.

As travel teams multiplied like rabbits, the HS summer teams in Chicagoland were largely disbanded. However, in small towns, there are still some HS summer teams.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Some, anti-daddy-ball, types might bock at DD wanting to come back to dad's team. But, it may ending being a relief for her, and may actually save her from dropping out entirely from HS coach burnout.

With regards to the coach asking players who make the HS team to play on his summer team.....I see it as having a monopoly on the players. Makes it very difficult for me to field a team. And, I like the idea of competition--having some other team as a choice.

 

[Doug Romrell]

Since there are regional differences, it is difficult to draw that conclusion without more. In some states, a HS will have a summer baseball team and the kids are allowed to play on a travel team as well. (Illinois even has an unofficial summer tournament for HS teams baseball teams.)

My DDs played on two teams during the summer...the HS summer team that played in a Class "B" league and on "A" travel teams.

Around here it's basically ASA-registered summer competitive teams playing in mostly ASA tournaments.

 

[pizza-boy01]

My point is that every day she waits, she makes it more difficult on her and the coach. Vacillating isn't helping anyone.

It seems to me there's very little vacillating going on. She made a decision. The coach knows of the decision. The coach disagrees with the decision. Pretty cut-and-dry, IMO

 

[riseball]

It seems to me there's very little vacillating going on. She made a decision. The coach knows of the decision. The coach disagrees with the decision. Pretty cut-and-dry, IMO

Must be some part of NO that he does not understand. Some feel that if they disagree with a decision that they are somehow owed the opportunity for a "discussion"; which is a passive aggressive way of saying that they do not respect the decision. Were it not for the fact that he is the HS coach and just another TB coach I seriously doubt that a "discussion" would even be a consideration.