He's making her slap her thigh.

[cthur]

Just using the limited data you have supplied ..... such as this.



From my personal experience, the above data places your daughter on the low end on a relative basis. The prior implication is justified IMO ... that being that improvements for someone significantly far behind are not all that difficult to realize.

You spoke of the PC making numerous adjustments. Likely some of those adjustments paid off ... more so for those far behind, less so for those already pitching in decent form.

The points that everyone seems to be missing from my responses are:

1. The PC estimated the glove slap to be about 2 to 3/10th of 1 mph, not the complete 2 to 3 MPH from the weekend or the 5 MPH total including the 2 to 3 from the weekend.
2. He had over 20 girls from our program come in for the weekend and 2 MPH was the average. I obviously don't have all the numbers, but the other example from 58 to 61 was from a girl that takes weekly lessons from a well respected PC in the area.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The advantage of a girl pitching 48mph at 18A/18Gold is likely that many batters struggle to dial down to that pitch speed quickly.

As your daughter’s pitch speed increases, she may become more hittable … as she will be entering more hitter’s timing related sweet spot. That doesn’t mean your daughter shouldn’t go for it … it’s simply the reality that pitchers have to work through when they get far behind and decide to catch up.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The points that everyone seems to be missing from my responses are:

1. The PC estimated the glove slap to be about 2 to 3/10th of 1 mph, not the complete 2 to 3 MPH from the weekend or the 5 MPH total including the 2 to 3 from the weekend.
2. He had over 20 girls from our program come in for the weekend and 2 MPH was the average. I obviously don't have all the numbers, but the other example from 58 to 61 was from a girl that takes weekly lessons from a well respected PC in the area.

You have supplied nothing that suggests that removing glove slapping will increase pitch speed. An estimate of a 0.2mph increase in pitch speed is more a guess. As someone that measures pitch speeds to within 0.1mph ... I can tell you that the typical variance of a pitcher's speed, for a pitcher with numerous inefficiencies, is above +/- 0.2mph. IMO your PC was guessing and pulled a number out of thin air ... and truth be told, he has no evidence that eliminating a glove slap, and replacing it with the glove tuck you described, increases pitch speed. More likely he pulled that number out of thin air to get your daughter to buy into his ideal of pitching ..... much like he pulled the audible advantage to hitting out of thin air.

 

[cthur]

You have supplied nothing that suggests that removing glove slapping will increase pitch speed. An estimate of a 0.2mph increase in pitch speed is more a guess. As someone that measures pitch speeds to within 0.1mph ... I can tell you that the typical variance of a pitcher's speed, for a pitcher with numerous inefficiencies, is above +/- 0.2mph. IMO your PC was guessing and pulled a number out of thin air ... and truth be told, he has no evidence that eliminating a glove slap, and replacing it with the glove tuck you described, increases pitch speed. More likely he pulled that number out of thin air to get your daughter to buy into his ideal of pitching ..... much like he pulled the audible advantage to hitting out of thin air.

If you measure pitch speed to +/- 0.1mph, I would think that you would have some data to back up your point that the glove slap does not matter. You keep asking for proof, but have not supplied the evidence on your side, so you are guessing that is doesn't matter the same that you are saying that he is guessing that it does.

I never intended to get into a detailed discussion, as I do not have the data, or have not ever stated that I do. Until what he is teaching fails to show results, or she just tops out based on body type etc, I will still go with the results.

In regards to the slapping being an indicator to the hitter that you keep bringing up, that really has not had anything to do with the discussion since yesterday at about 2:00.

 

[cthur]

The advantage of a girl pitching 48mph at 18A/18Gold is likely that many batters struggle to dial down to that pitch speed quickly.

As your daughter’s pitch speed increases, she may become more hittable … as she will be entering more hitter’s timing related sweet spot. That doesn’t mean your daughter shouldn’t go for it … it’s simply the reality that pitchers have to work through when they get far behind and decide to catch up.

I agree that teams struggle to dial down to someone pitching down to that pitch speed and have tried to tell her HS coach the same thing, but he has never used her and even when his top 2 pitcher are getting hit won't bring her in. Her last 2 travel ball coaches are HS coaches from the same area that we play non conference games against and they scratch their heads also. Oh well.

I don't know if she will become more hittable, as she has always had very good control and the added speed will make her off speed pitches that much better.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

If you measure pitch speed to +/- 0.1mph, I would think that you would have some data to back up your point that the glove slap does not matter. You keep asking for proof, but have not supplied the evidence on your side, so you are guessing that is doesn't matter the same that you are saying that he is guessing that it does.

The data that I have personally taken on pitchers that purposefully removed their glove slapping mechanic, had them pitching "slower" (not faster).

The significance of the audible being a valuable indicator to the hitter simply means that your PC shoots from the hip at times in terms of doling out information. Doesn't mean he doesn't have good information ... simply means that his information should be passed through a Hanson Principle type filter.

 

[JJsqueeze]

So for some reason Deiter from Saturday Night Live saying "You bore me" popped into my head while reading the last couple of pages....Couldn't find a clever clip of him saying this but did find this and it killed me so here it is....

 

[cthur]

The data that I have personally taken on pitchers that purposefully removed their glove slapping mechanic, had them pitching "slower" (not faster).

The significance of the audible being a valuable indicator to the hitter simply means that your PC shoots from the hip at times in terms of doling out information. Doesn't mean he doesn't have good information ... simply means that his information should be passed through a Hanson Principle type filter.

Do you have that data, or is there any 3rd party unbiased data anywhere. I am sure her instructor would tell me he has data also that says they pitch faster. On any given pitch you can see the possibility of more than that based on everything else that is takes to deliver a pitch.

She buys into it, and if that is part of what makes her believe, then I am not putting it back in unless someone shows we actual scientific data to show it. The mental part of pitching is probably more important than any of he actual movements.

I am just looking to learn and to help my DD achieve her goals just like every other parent on here.

 

[NorthMS]

I just read this all again, but I want to make two points:
I am not against slapping the thigh because it helps the hitter. I would still be against it regardless.
I am against it because it has caused injuries
I am against it because grunting and slapping are poor body control, a sloppy technique for several reasons.
When I manage the player, that means being around her for hours, so if you grunt or slap, the rest of us find it distracting, and often or can lead to players conversing, getting sloppy with technique, or grunting themselves. (If I have to tell them to shut up or be precise on something, I am going to tell my pitcher also to do so.)

Or the other team gets riled up and messing with her, which can help them.

Sorry, but both bad habits in pitching are really annoying. Because it is not necessary to do so, then I tell you, you can't pitch for me unless you get rid of that slap. You can pitch for TB, etc. just not for me. But the ones that are high level that have come to my team never had these bad habits.
I doubt you will have any scientific studies on this. Really, make a kid slap her thigh to test theories....I think researchers are looking into more important things. However, they have found grunting a problem in women's tennis.

I shouldn't be surprised, but I can't believe what I'm reading. Most of your post are so off base, it's obvious you're just trolling. But, every now and then, you slip and let your true personality show. The above bolded shows your narcissistic, control freak side. Just who do you think you are? Does your PE degree come with a God stamp?

This is the type of behavior that gives HS ball such a bad rap. You have decided that if a player does something to annoy you, they can't pitch for you. Never mind the RESULTS. What kind of coaching is that? I'll answer, it's not coaching. It's a dictatorship. You have a imprisoned group of players. They didn't chose you. You aren't their parents. You won't be judged by your RESULTS. You keeping your job has more to do with who you know than your RESULTS. This isn't about to slap or not to slap. This isn't even about injuries. (Can anyone give a example of a player getting hurt by this? Not a red thigh, but hurt.)

Your comments on grunting shows that you absolutely do not research your thoughts on subjects that are so important to you, a kid can't pitch for you. You just decide like God, that it's your way or the high way. btw...before you try "that your liable", as an excuse, how about making them sign a waiver that you're against it and move on? (even that is stupid)

End of rant.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Cthur ... I did not take a photo of the radar readings.

Simply showed the parents the results .... which by the way were about 10x the 0.2-0.3mph amount you mentioned, and in the other direction.

Could be that these individuals replaced their glove slap mechanic with a mechanic that was less efficient .... which was my personal take on the situations. Could be that your instructor has an efficient replacement.

People need to let the data speak for itself. I've yet to see a pitcher purposefully remove a glove slap mechanic and realize a speed increase from making that change. Doesn't mean it isn't possible .... just haven't seen it yet, and have seen the opposite.