I think that only makes sense.
00 DD one year later....comments welcome
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I think that only makes sense.
- Jul 14, 2008
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I've already said this is a waste of time.........Because you can only see what you want to see.......Another principle of internet forum discussion.........
At the first pause in this clip........The balls are STACKED on top of each other.......Verifyable evidence that his hand is palm-sideways..........At the second pause in this clip.........The balls are parallel to each other and NOT STACKED one on top of the other.......Verifyable evidence that his hand is palm up and NOT palm to 3rd "wiping your wall".......In the last pause in this clip the balls are STILL NOT STACKED as they are at the first pause.........The camera angle is above and infront of the ball position........So no......The gray ball would not be hiding the yellow ball from this angle unless the camera was positioned behind and even with the ball position.......
You say video evidence means nothing to you.........I get that.........That is the premise of the Hanson Principle.....Reality vs. fallacy........
What is it we disgree on? The video reality of what really happens in high level delivery?
That fact you feel you're being "rediculed" by verifyable evidence tells me that you are very protective of your beliefs. To a flaw IMO.......I don't have a problem with that......As long as that doesn't manifest itself as condesending in discussion........
When you suggested the "wipe the wall" drill and I said I didn't like that drill........Your response was (paraphrasing): "Oh really.......Why don't you enlighten us"........
A condesending remark at best.........
Well Steve.......I've shown you why.....OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN........And you have yet to say "oh I see why you don't like it"........"I can see your point, whether I agree with it or not".........Which tells me that you never really wanted to know........
And that my friend is why this was a complete waste of time TO YOU.......Others may have a different opinion.......There is a lot of good information in the last couple of pages IF you "look" for it........And that good information is not in the form of "because I said so"........Or "because someone else said so"..........Or "because I refuse to believe or understand what I see"...........
If you don't want to know the answer........DON'T ask the question, I was always told..........
Peace Buddy...........
Oh ya........Regarding Ueno.......
This is what I said..........
And this was your response........
Were you speaking of a different Ueno?..........Or are you just afraid to admit you were wrong..........It's ok to be wrong.........As I was in saying AS was your roll drop model..........Admitting it is something a good teacher should be able to do IMO..........
Once again......Peace dude..............
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Well just in front of his face, the yellow ball is invisible. That is because he is palm down. At the other side of the clock at 09:00 the ball would also be invisible if palm up. It isn't because the ball is cocked back toward his head, that is why it isn't stacked, and it is palm out toward the wall as I say. The third pause the yellow ball is still visible, and sort short of stacked, because his wrist is still cocked. Is it tilted away from the "wall"? I don't know. It isn't clear. That is what the video shows me. That is what I see, because that is what is there. Now in the Ueno video, she is palm up, and in most of the others also. And I must say so, because that is what is there, and that is what the video shows.
No I don't say that I don't care what the videos show. I say I don't care that you post 10 videos showing this hand position. I can find 10 that don't. I just don't wast my time because you wouldn't change your mind if I did, and that would be the smart thing. Go copy my statements in post #29 and show the world what I said about Ueno.
No wait, I found it. But, that is an incomplete sentence. My intention is that her elbow position demonstrates that a palm out position would be more relaxed. So I admit to grammatical error. For me Ueno demonstrates palm up, and elbow stress. Indeed, it is poor English and should have said, "the palm out position, as demonstrated by this Ueno video, would be a more relaxed position (elbow), or a preferred position. But as I claimed many times after, anyone who thinks she is not palm up is an idiot or a liar. And on the enlightenment issue. There are many of us here who use the wall drill. I was speaking for us. I am still irritated at the Ueno video because you knew from the other comments I didn't mean this at all. I have said time and again her palm is up. I only question this Hillhouse video, the "roll-over drop" Scarborough video, and the Parker video. We know about the Scarborough video, and the other two are not clear enough or demonstrate effectively your point. However, the Ueno video could not be better! Period! End of story! On that we agree.
And what you have done is select some videos. That is not debate. It is not some empirical evidence for me. And as always, I still stand that the only pitch palm up enhances, is a curve-ball, and that is because the elbow is flexed and in back of the hip reducing tensions.
No I don't say that I don't care what the videos show. I say I don't care that you post 10 videos showing this hand position. I can find 10 that don't. I just don't wast my time because you wouldn't change your mind if I did, and that would be the smart thing. Go copy my statements in post #29 and show the world what I said about Ueno.
No wait, I found it. But, that is an incomplete sentence. My intention is that her elbow position demonstrates that a palm out position would be more relaxed. So I admit to grammatical error. For me Ueno demonstrates palm up, and elbow stress. Indeed, it is poor English and should have said, "the palm out position, as demonstrated by this Ueno video, would be a more relaxed position (elbow), or a preferred position. But as I claimed many times after, anyone who thinks she is not palm up is an idiot or a liar. And on the enlightenment issue. There are many of us here who use the wall drill. I was speaking for us. I am still irritated at the Ueno video because you knew from the other comments I didn't mean this at all. I have said time and again her palm is up. I only question this Hillhouse video, the "roll-over drop" Scarborough video, and the Parker video. We know about the Scarborough video, and the other two are not clear enough or demonstrate effectively your point. However, the Ueno video could not be better! Period! End of story! On that we agree.
And what you have done is select some videos. That is not debate. It is not some empirical evidence for me. And as always, I still stand that the only pitch palm up enhances, is a curve-ball, and that is because the elbow is flexed and in back of the hip reducing tensions.
I would like to see these 10 videos.....or how about just 3 videos
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EASTON SOFTBALL: PITCHING TIPS - GRIPS - YouTube
I think if you slow this one down you will see palm out.
I think if you slow this one down you will see palm out.
- Jul 31, 2011
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I've been following your arm circle/hand position discussion and would agree with you for the most part- my difference would be that the ideal hand position at 3:00 instead of palm up is palm facing 3rd base (for a right handed pitcher). This is a neutral position that allows equal room for rotation to come under or over the ball at release. If you are palm up at 3:00 for the rise, you are already under the ball which limits, possibly too much, rotation into the release. The 3 ladies demonstrating- two I believe show facing 3rd base at 3:00 and Cat I would agree seems more palm up at that point. .. The ball to the wall drill promotes a palm down or toward 2nd base position at 3:00 and I might add that almost everybody who comes to me for lessons who have been taught that also have a locked out arm and muscle thru the release to a "hello elbow" finish.
I've been following your arm circle/hand position discussion and would agree with you for the most part- my difference would be that the ideal hand position at 3:00 instead of palm up is palm facing 3rd base (for a right handed pitcher). This is a neutral position that allows equal room for rotation to come under or over the ball at release. If you are palm up at 3:00 for the rise, you are already under the ball which limits, possibly too much, rotation into the release. The 3 ladies demonstrating- two I believe show facing 3rd base at 3:00 and Cat I would agree seems more palm up at that point. .. The ball to the wall drill promotes a palm down or toward 2nd base position at 3:00 and I might add that almost everybody who comes to me for lessons who have been taught that also have a locked out arm and muscle thru the release to a "hello elbow" finish.
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But this is how you activate the kinetic chain of: elbow, wrist & fingers....that creates the Whip.... "convert"
Forget the wall.... think of the ball as a piece of round chalk, draw a circle with it.... don't scratch your fingers on the chalk board...
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