Now I want to ask you coach Dan, what did this prove? Posting videos proves nothing. I could spend the rest of my life posting something to support my argument. This debate started about the hand facing 3B at 12:00, at the top, and 09:00 by my natural clock when looking at the pitcher from the side, or 03:00 by Boardmember's clock, directly behind, in executing the "Wall Drill".
I have no idea what this last statement means, but it is probably similar to my convoluted Ueno comment early in this thread; perhaps just misspoken.
Now if the palm forward argument is used, then why do so few videos demonstrate such an orientation. And since, most of the pitchers in the videos show a palm out orientation at 12:00, what is wrong with the wall drill? Lastly, even if you taught palm up at 09:00/03:00 by Boardmembers clock, the hand isn't in contact with the wall at "03:00" and has already slid off. The hand could already be turned, cupped up like Ueno.
My contention is that this orientation used by Ueno and others, like hello elbow is not the best advice. I have reasons, and the proof I am wrong is videos posted over and over again. That ain't science! And my videos prove nothing. Videos have nothing to do with my contentions. It does however prove that Boardmember has better computer software than I do.
My contention is that the palm up puts more stress on the elbow. You can orient the elbow in the same position, pulling to the hip, without the 180 degree maximum supination of the elbow. In other words turning the elbow 90 degrees out of the neutral elbow position, hand facing out, can achieve the same ends. The humorous bone in the upper arm can only help achieve this 180 degree position by moving in the rotator cuff. This adds additional stress on the rotator cuff, which is probably the most vulnerable joint in motion mechanics. The natural or neutral position would be the hand facing out at 12:00 and and at 09:00. The 90 degree angle, palm out doesn't put a lot of stress on the elbow. If you grip a ball, and assume both positions, this will be obvious to you. The only pitch the palm up position benefits is a curve-ball when thrown as most do, from a "cupped" hand position. However, the elbow leaves the homogenous circle and goes behind the back, relaxing the elbow from the vertical (circular) position that the palm up position demands. Further, the palm up position naturally progresses into a pronated position after release. When you are standing, hands at side, patting your thigh, the two forearm bones are twisted over, or around the other, radius over ulna. This is the end result of Ueno's release. So the bones have rotated 270 degrees from a non-neutral to the opposite non-neutral position.
The second issue. I have posted in other threads about Ueno's palm up position. So the one stupid gramatical post is out of context to my body of posts. I blew it in achieving my message. However in #29 I wrote about it more extensively, as I had in other threads. I don't like her achieving the neutral hand position during release so late. Timing becomes an issue, and that may not be as critical for her as it would be younger pitchers. At what point do you get the hand turned back facing the catcher on a peel drop, fastball, changes of some types, etc? From the 90 degree elbow position, it requires half of the correction, enhancing timing problems for various releases. The 90 degree position is also exactly what is required for a rise-ball, as Bill Hillhouse demonstrates in his Fastpitch TV video #2.
These are not video challenges. And they do not require fabrications or just shouting louder. If you are going to challenge a theory, you have to work within that theory, and offer an alternative. It is like saying, "Those Democrats haven't offered a budget!" And the Democrats say, "Well where is yours!" I am a Conservative by the way and hate them all! Don't argue my theory with videos. If that is valid, I can impose a plethora of videos supporting "hello elbow". Debate within the premise. Attack the theory. Offer an alternative and show why.
Lastly, I do not believe that the enhanced or at the limitation of IR, 180 degree position, palm up at 09:00, somehow enhances speed more than the 90 degree, palm out, facing the wall position. That is the theory Boardmember made. I have no evidence to the contrary. But it isn't my theory.
I don't think, and there is concrete evidence to that fact, that I give a lot of credit to other posters. But this argument and my two premises have not been broken by videos. Remember "hello elbow".
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