Reverse Hand Drill

Tewks, your post-number/junior member ranking is elevating quickly! Welcome.

On not teaching extension, you'd be amazed how many girls 1) stop to some degree on contact or 2) roll their wrists on contact and finish with a low shoulder slap. This was actually taught, as you may know, as a fast pitch hitting style back when college teams hit 3 homers a season versus 80! Many girls have been taught it or see it and adopt it as the right path moving from rec ball to travel ball.

As you discussed in this or another thread, a drill is about feel, not necessarily about the swing you take to the plate. I agree with Howard that teaching short to the ball long to finish with a full extension is something most female travel ball players must be taught or have reinforced.

So I guess what I'm saying is that everything after contact won't just happen and look right in my experience, for many girls a little bit of drill work on extension helps too.

TKS.

Rich,

I don't disagree that it can help. I just think it is more trial and error. If you build bat speed to contact correctly and try to stop at contact, the barrel pulls the hands out. The whip of the barrel is very strong. My players can get the "whoosh" sound on a swing stopped at contact. The speed and power comes entirely from the rear hip TO the point of contact. I see this drill promoting push/pull of the arms and pull of the lead shoulder. (AKA bat drag)

I used to be a big believer in this drill. In fact, I almost hit like this in games my senior year in college because I had a torn ligament in my thumb. This drill could probably still be done with some effectiveness, but IMO it isn't the best investment of time.

I work many with girls from the ages 10 thru 16 and I have not found a better drill to show them proper extention. So I'm game give me something to let them see and feel it when I working a clinic.

straightleg said:

Tewks

Show us a drill that is a better investment of time. Like to see it


Straightleg

Click to expand...

And you might as well talk more about what you mean by "whip" and again, how you teach it, while you're at it : >

I'd like to understand where you're coming from. Tks.

First AHA moment

My first AHA moment at this forum was....girls aren't boys! I've got 2 of the former and 1 of the later (all 15 btw), so maybe I was a little dense? The real take away was that although we want to teach them the same thing (how to hit, throw etc), the teaching approach and methods need to be different for the ladies to get it!

The difference is HUGE! Balance, momentum shift - boys don't need to be taught that, but frankly IMO these 2 things are typically the most limiting factor for girls. Fundamentally, I think you have to start there and move forward re-thinking how to effectively teach the ladies.

One of the biggest contributions that Howard/Hitter offers to this website is his vast experience teaching girls and providing insight to HOW they learn.

As long as civility is maintained, I value the contributions everyone makes to this forum and try to evaluate them independently and objectively with my primary focus being is this something that will help me teach my team.

Greenmonsters

Tewks said:

I know his bat speed was high because this ball got out... way out. The only thing that matters with bat speed is the bat speed at contact. For extension, you can't hit the ball, then hit the ball again after contact. The ball is on the bat for less than 1/1000 of a second. (I've read as little as 1/2000 of a second with a 90 mph fastball and a wood bat.) Everything TO contact matters. Everything after than just happens and will look "right" if everything to contact was correct. I see a lot of instruction on the follow through in an attempt to fix the approach to the ball. IMO, this creates bad habits and a bad approach.

I disagree he is looking in. He did hit a mistake (check the catchers glove moving across the plate.) His hands do not move in relation from when he initiated his swing to just prior to contact. His barrel did go rearward though.

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I guess I was looking at the catcher setting up away and then coming inside like a decoy as I have seen the done. Time on the ball with the bat is important as is square to contact with the ball and what you did up to point of contact kind of sets what will happen during contact especially with girls who give up or push to get to contact. What I have enjoyed about this site in particular is it deals with softball and female hitting techniques verses all the shove down the parents throats of the Elite Baseball swings as it is not apples and apples and these parents need help getting their daughter on the right track before we bring in AP or Manny or what ever other examples you choose to use.Their balance is different as other things however I am sure you know that. Personally I feel Bustos lends more credibility as she gives clinics and answers the parents and coaches questions and is approachable. Many of you could possibly learn something by attending a clinic and asking her yourself face to face verses a keyboard and a video and your interpretation of what you think happened verses what happened.

Just my opinion...

Thanks Howard

We call it FUNKY HANDS and do it at every batting practice!

SBFAMILY said:

I work many with girls from the ages 10 thru 16 and I have not found a better drill to show them proper extention. So I'm game give me something to let them see and feel it when I working a clinic.

Click to expand...

Perhaps we can need to define "proper extension" and the role of the top hand in a normal swing. I posted the Manny clip to show that the arms don't extend from the body to contact. The reverse hand drill promotes pulling with the bottom hand... I just stood up and performed it.

My belief is that anything after contact is a waste of time to worry about. You can't do anything to the ball after contact. Swing direction, swing plane, the source of power, hand positioning, everything is spent at contact. Concentrate resources on getting to contact. This means staying back, using the hips to supply power, and using the hands as a pivot point or fulcrum to the swing.

I have worked with young men and young women. When broken down in this way, it is still difficult to teach proper hip drive. Boys tend to have more upper body strength, so poor mechanics (pulling, getting the pivot point out front with the arms) can be made up for. Better pitching then abuses this mechanical flaw. When you isolate the rear hip, with boys or girls, it gets really difficult for them (and entertaining!)

straightleg said:

Tewks
Show us a drill were it is a better investment of time. Like to see it.
You could explain why you do the drill, and what to accomplish with it.

Click to expand...

Drill:
No stride. Start in front of a mirror. Then move to a high tee with no ball. Then move to front flips.

Step 1: Get your hands to palm up/palm down. Do not move the shoulders, do not let the hands move from the point they have started on. (The hands are a pivot point.) See if the phrase "the elbows move independent of the hands" helps. The bat and the shoulders should be parallel. Stop. Do this before any hip movement. (Before a ball is flipped when you get that far.) Perhaps you can think of this as flattening the bat. It is just placing the bat on plane with the palm up/palm down hand set.

Step 2: Get the barrel to the point of contact (stop there) by driving/rotating the rear hip. If there barrel isn't getting to contact when the shoulders are square to the pitcher, something has gone wrong. Perhaps the foot/knee has turn, but not the hip. (Femur rotates within hip socket, hip did not rotate.) Maybe the player pulled with the lead shoulder and dragged the bat.

Step 3: Speed up the hip drive to the point of contact as the player gets more comfortable.. This is where the hitter should be able to generate whip (the whoosh sound) with hip drive alone. The hands should not move in relation to the body. Tilt laterally according to pitch height. (Do not lean back... this will produce a mean upper cut.) If done well, the barrel will begin to pull the hands out to get extension (some call it the Power V, I do not since the power has already happened and the term is misleading) without rolling the wrists over.

Ask the player what they think it means to stay inside the ball during this drill and notice how tight the hands stay to the body... while the barrel is easily whipping around to contact.

Watch for pulling with the arms/shoulders. Watch for forcing the bat angle if early. Watch for sway/shift to the front side. Watch for the hitter to reach back to try to get more power with the arms/upper body (and then pull even more.) All power should come from the hips.

This will help the player feel the power from the hips, make them feel bad extension before contact, and has a tendency to get the first AHA. Look for a smile or laughter, or maybe a parents jaw to drop. When you get a good swing where the hitter stays back, keeps the hands tight, drives the rear hip really well and the ball explodes off the bad with what appears to be a check swing, ask what the swing felt like. Try to get specific words. Film if possible.

I will not post my students without permission. I volunteer myself doing the drill. Another progression is doing it from one leg, as the video shows toward the end. Click on the bigger image to play the video. You should be able to go frame-by-frame from right there. (Sorry the sound is off... happens when I edit section of video out in Quicktime Pro.)

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