Which sanction ball is better

[livingontheroad]

Sanctions mean nothing, except for national tournament play. Batting the lineup is nice when playing practice tournaments, but it is not being the most competitive you can be is it?

ASA/USA nationals is where the best teams in the country go to play. The other 90% go play something else.

If you dont know the difference, its because you havent played ASA/USA nationals at a high level. The bar is really set by the teams from Southern California. That is where they play, if you want to say you are good, you must try to play with them. It is about seeking out the highest level of competition you can play. Of course, not everyone wants that.

If you want to be able to say you won the XYZ national championship, or came in "xth at xyz nationals "go ahead. Its meaningless, there were no good teams there, but it makes poor teams feel good. The teams coming in 10-20th place at ASA would win the other end-of-season tournaments handily.

There is one National Champion to aspire to, its ASA.


I dont know how anyone "plays 4-5 ASA tournaments." and says whats the big deal? Maybe they mean ASA rules.? ASA tournaments are national qualifiers, not weekend recreational tournaments. California teams will fly across the country to win a berth if they didnt win one at home. Sounds strange to me.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Sanctions mean nothing, except for national tournament play. Batting the lineup is nice when playing practice tournaments, but it is not being the most competitive you can be is it?

ASA/USA nationals is where the best teams in the country go to play. The other 90% go play something else.

If you dont know the difference, its because you havent played ASA/USA nationals at a high level. The bar is really set by the teams from Southern California. That is where they play, if you want to say you are good, you must try to play with them. It is about seeking out the highest level of competition you can play. Of course, not everyone wants that.

If you want to be able to say you won the XYZ national championship, or came in "xth at xyz nationals "go ahead. Its meaningless, there were no good teams there, but it makes poor teams feel good. The teams coming in 10-20th place at ASA would win the other end-of-season tournaments handily.

There is one National Champion to aspire to, its ASA.


I dont know how anyone "plays 4-5 ASA tournaments." and says whats the big deal? Maybe they mean ASA rules.? ASA tournaments are national qualifiers, not weekend recreational tournaments. California teams will fly across the country to win a berth if they didnt win one at home. Sounds strange to me.

This sounds like someone either from the extreme west or east coast where ASA thrives. California has two advantages, they can play year round because of the climate and also the better teams have a ton of funding because of the 'California Hype' and success over the past years of softball.

Winning a XYZ national championship is meaningless?? Really?? How can you say there were NO good teams there? Did you see it through your crystal ball??

Just because some of us on here don't have $50,000 in TB budgets to 'fly' all over the country to find a weak ASA tournament to get a birth, does not mean we can't hold our own with any of them face to face.

I had to go onto the ASA site just to make sure my facts were straight on this one. We have beat 2 of the top 4 teams ( to keep them anonymous ) that played in the ASA Southern NAtional Qualifier 2009, every time we have played them. Playing one of them this next weekend as a matter of fact in a USSSA event. Gone half and half with a team that came in the top 3 in the ASA Eastern National Qualifier. So ASA doesn't impress me. Do I respect the players, YES. Do I worship the ground they walk on, NO.

Let me know next time one of the 'chosen' teams fly somewhere in the southeast. I know of a couple of teams that will give them all they want.

 

[livingontheroad]

Id just say dont confuse popularity with competitiveness. The other world-series are quite popular, because the vast majority of teams are not very competitive teams. To be blunt, actually the vast majority of teams today are pretty bad, and they all want a place to go play too.

I know ASA qualifiers arent real competitive in some areas, because the local teams there dont want to go spend big money to travel around the country to play. Or they dont want to go 2000 miles to go 0-4 and come home. Understandable. But that is the cost of competing with the best. No one spends that money unless they think they have a shot. Serious teams are into playing softball, not having a family vacation. But I dont know of ANY really good teams that dont aspire to play ASA. For a 16U team looking to get college exposure for their girls, it would be ridiculous to play anything else IF they had a choice.

Playing a local regional qualifier and playing the best teams in the country are much different things. If the qualifier is weak, you can take advantage of that to get an easy bid to ASA nationals. How did those teams you beat do on the national level?

Weve played the #1 team in the country in ASA before, and placed very high among the top teams in the country at ASA, and weve played and placed very high in weaker world series in years when we couldnt qualify for ASA. Ive experienced it first hand . There really is no comparison. There is often still a huge difference usually between the top couple of teams and the rest of the top 10 or so even in ASA. And just like anywhere, there is a huge difference between the top 20 or so and all the rest. That is just the way it is today with all the poor teams.

What separates the top Cali teams from the rest the most is hitting, and frequently the size of some of the players. They usually hit the ball very well. Even if its not even a strike they often have big players that can go get it and still put it over the fence. It starts young, and that is why the top colleges in the country load their rosters with west coast players today.

If you want to be a big dog, you have to run with them. You cant just sit on the porch and bark.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Look, I agree with most of what you said. I'm not here to argue about ASA, but there are some extremely talented teams that don't foam at the mouth about ASA.

I'll leave you with this. If the 2010 ASA 18u Gold qualified roster is correct, out of the 40 qualified teams only 4 are from California. The majority is from the south and southeast. 3 of the teams I have seen play personally and they are tough.

I can't seem to navigate the ASA site for past Nationals to see how the teams we beat did. It keeps pushing me to the 2010, that has not yet been played.

I have stated on here a few times, we are a 14u and looking to start running the 16-18 Gold circuit this fall.

 

[livingontheroad]

Top 32 in 14U for past 5yrs.
Know whats really amazing? Some of the Cali teams charge $500-$1000 just to tryout, and they have hundreds of girls still tryout.

2009 Marietta , GA

1st14U VICTORY USA-CAMPBELLCypress., CA
2ndCORONA ANGELS 14UGlendora., CA
3rdCORONA ELIMINATORSCorona., CA
4thOKLAHOMA FORCE 94Edmond., OK
5thATLANTA VIPERS-DEANLiburn., GA
5thFIRECRACKERS 14U-CORDOVAHuntington Beach., CA
7thOHIO SLAMMERSN. Canton., OH
7thMIZUNO PRIDE 95Torrance., CA
9thTHE NEXT LEVEL 14U GOLDTemecula., CA
9thMAVERICKSLa Mirada., CA
9thCORONA ANGELS-SMITHOrange., CA
9thLAKEWOOD LADIESLong Beach., CA
13thSO CAL HURRICANESCosta Mesa., CA
13thVICTORY USA 95Anaheim., CA
13thVIRGINIA LEGENDS WHITEVirginia Beach., VA
13th14U CALIFORNIA BREEZEElk Grove., CA
17thDEER PARK TPSPasadena., TX
17thGEORGIA FIRE BLACKKennesaw., GA
17thTEXAS TRAVELERS-LUSKDallas., TX
17thSOUTHERN FORCE 14UCarmi., IL
17thLAKEWOOD FIRECRACKERSDowney., CA
17thGEORGIA CRUSADERSStone Mountain., GA
17thGEORGIA ELITE-ROGERS/MOODYDecatur., GA
17thGEORGIA ELITE STROTHERSuwanee., GA
25thTEXAS PEPPERS-HOSKINSMagnolia., TX
25thSO CAL CHOPPERSWestminster., CA
25thHUNTSVILLE SPARKS 94Madison., AL
25thFLORIDA GOLDWinter Haven., FL
25thEAST COBB BULLETS 95-BAKERCanton., GA
25th14U OC BATBUSTERSNorco., CA
25thMUSTANGS 94Chickamauga., GA
25thMINNESOTA 94 STINGNorth Mankato., MN


2008 Midland, TX
1stLAKEWOOD LADIES-BLACKDowney., CA
2ndVICTORY USA-CAMPBELLCypress., CA
3rdCORONA ANGELSGlendora., CA
4thATLANTA VIPERS-BERRYWoodstock., GA
5thHURRICANESSanta Ana., CA
5thAMERICAN STARSYorba Linda., CA
7thMIZE DIAMONDSSan Jose., CA
7thTX STORM 93La Porte., TX
9thDESERT THUNDERTucson., AZ
9thSPRING KLEIN TAZERSSpring., TX
9thLAKEWOOD LADIES-WHITELakewood., CA
9thSAN JOSE LADY SHARKSSan Jose., CA
13thOC WILDCATSRancho Santa Margarita., CA
13thEAST COBB MAD DOGSSuwanee., GA
13thHATTERS GOLDDeltona., FL
13thDIAMOND DUSTERSLa Porte., TX
17thTRI COUNTY SMASHCeres., CA
17thAMERICAN PASTIMERancho Cucamonga., CA
17thAMERICAN ATHLETICSTrabuco Canyon., CA
17thDC JETSParker., CO
17thLAWTON LADY SOONERSLawton., OK
17thAZ HOTSHOTSMesa., AZ
17thBIRMINGHAM VIPERSBirmingham., AL
17thOK DIAMOND GIRLSJenks., OK
25thSUDDEN IMPACT 94Chino Hills., CA
25thTEXAS PEPPERS 14UMagnolia., TX
25thATLANTA VIPERS-DEANLiburn., GA
25thMOBILE THRILLERS/GENERATION XMobile., AL
25thORLAND PARK SPARKS 14U REDOrland Park., IL
25thVICTORY USA-GUERRAHuntington., CA
25thALBUQUERQUE SOLAlbuquerque., NM
25thOR PANTHERSSalem., OR

2007 Normal, IL
1stAMERICAN ATHLETICS-NAUDINSouth Orange., CA
2ndCORONA ANGELS REDCorona., CA
3rdSO CAL BATBUSTERSSouthern., CA
4thWEST PINES DIAMOND DUSTERSPembroke Pines., FL
5thORLANDO NO FEAROrlando., FL
5thSO CAL FIRECRACKERSHuntington Beach., CA
7thTHE NEXT LEVEL GOLDOceanside., CA
7thGEORGIA IMPACT BLACKMarietta., GA
9thLADY MAGICSacramento., CA
9thLOUISIANA PATRIOTSBaton Rouge., LA
9thARIZONA HOTSHOTS 92Tempe., AZ
9thO.C. WILDCATSSouthern., CA
13thOAK PARK WINDMILLSOak Park., IL
13thKATY EXPRESSKaty., TX
13thS.D. LEGACY BLACKSan Diego., CA
13thBIRMINGHAM VIPERSBirmingham., AL
17thCAROLINA CRUSHGreenville., SC
17thNEW ORLEANS VOO DOONew Orleans., LA
17thTAMPA MUSTANGSTampa., FL
17thSO CAL FURYSaugus., CA
17thSAN JOSE LADY SHARKSSan Jose., CA
17thARIZONA STORM 92Phoenix., AZ
17thARIZONA HOTSHOTS-SUNDERHAUSMesa., AZ
17thTEAM AURELIO'SWatertown., WI
25thGCKA NIGHTMAREGrove City., OH
25thTEXAS GLORYDallas., TX
25thOKLAHOMA LADY SOONERSMidwest City., OK
25thSOUTH RIDGE BLAZEBeaverton., OR
25thAMERICAN PASTIMERancho Cucamonga., CA
25thHUNTSVILLE SPARKSHuntsville., AL
25thBOMBERS BLACK 92San Antonio., TX
25thVIENNA STARSVienna., VA

2006 Johnson City TN
1stSMASHERSValencia., CA
2ndTHE NEXT LEVEL GOLDCardiff., CA
3rdCORONA ANGELS REDCorona., CA
4thSORCERER 91Benicia., CA
5thSO CAL WICKEDLa Habra., CA
5thTEXAS ELITEIrving., TX
7thSAN DIEGO THUNDERSan Diego., CA
7thTAMPA MUSTANGS HOLLETampa., FL
9thTEXAS PEPPERS/TANELMagnolia., TX
9thCENTER GROVE EXTREMEGreenwood., IN
9thAMERICAN PASTIMETujunga., CA
9thSO CAL ATHLETICSGarden Grove., CA
13thMARYLAND MAGICArnold., MD
13thSO CAL DYNASTYRiverside., CA
13thSO CAL MAYHEMSimi Valley., CA
13thLADY LASERS PURPLELaGrange., OH
17thCORONA ANGELS BLUECorona., CA
17thNASHVILLE NIGHTHAWKSNashville., TN
17thST. LOUIS CHAOSSt. Louis., MO
17thSORCERER 92Fairfield., CA
17thFIRE & ICELeesburg., PA
17thARIZONA HOTSHOTS 92Tempe., AZ
17thINDIANA SHOCKWAVES RED 91Noblesville., IN
17thEUGENE THUNDEREugene., OR
25thGEORGIA MUSTANGS GOLDHampton., GA
25thLOUISIANA PATRIOTSGreenwell Springs., LA
25thORLAND PARK SPARKSJoliet., IL
25thNORTHWEST CRUSHERSAnacortes., WA
25thOLATHE ROCKETSOlathe., KS
25thARIZONA HOTSHOTS 91Chandler., AZ
25thTEAM GEORGIADuluth., GA
25thTEXAS FLASHMesquite., TX


2005 Owensbury KY
1stUSA ATHLETICSCypress., CA
2ndTHE NEXT LEVEL-GOLDEncinitas., CA
3rdSO CAL PRIDESierra Madre., CA
4thCALIFORNIA FLAMESAntelope., CA
5thMINORS GOLDChino., CA
5thBIRMINGHAM VIPERSBirmingham., AL
7thSO CAL HURRICANESTustin., CA
7thSO CAL SCORPIONSCamarillo., CA
9thCALIFORNIA GRAPETTESModesto/Stockton., CA
9thOC PANTHERSBuena Park., CA
9thKILLER BEES 14UATempe., AZ
9thSAN JOSE STINGSan Jose., CA
13thKRUSHERSSanta Clarita., CA
13thSAN DIEGO STORMSantee., CA
13thTEXAS YOUNG GUNSHouston., TX
13thWEST BAY NUGGETSSan Mateo., CA
17thALLEY CATSCoral Springs., FL
17thSO CAL STORMThousand Oaks., CA
17thFRANKFORT FLAMESFrankfort., IL
17thCLARK COUNTY BULLDOGSBattleground., WA
17thDESERT THUNDERTucson., AZ
17thTUFF-E-NUFFCerritos., CA
17thCA DESPERADOS-RUIZMission Viejo., CA
17thJERSEY INTENSITYHowell., NJ
25thGEORGIA FRENZYSuwanee., GA
25thGEORGIA XTREMEStockbridge., GA
25thATLANTA VIPERS GREENNewman., GA
25thUNTOUCHABLESHuntington Beach., CA
25thSO CAL XPLOSIONYorba Linda., CA
25thHOLLISTER HEATHollister., CA
25thSUDDEN IMPACTTomball., TX
25thCORONA ANGELS 14UChino., CA

2004 Midland TX
1stRCA RAIDERSCorona., CA
2ndRMINORS GOLDSun City., CA
3rdRTHE NEXT LEVELCardiff., CA
4thRUSA ATHLETICS-CAMPBELLCypress., CA
5thRSK SUDDEN IMPACTSpring., TX
5thRSAN JOSE STING-BLACKSan Jose., CA
7thRAMERICAN PASTIMEUpland., CA
7thRCENTRAL VALLEY KRUSHFresno., CA
9thRCORONA ANGELSCorona., CA
9thRW. PINES DIAMOND DUSTERSPembroke Pines., FL
9thRRENEGADESSan Diego., CA
9thRLADY MAGICElkgrove., CA
13thRKC ZEPHYRSRaymore., MO
13thREAST COBB BLASTKennesaw., GA
13thRVIRGINIA SHAMROCKSFairfax., VA
13thRPOWER SURGESan Diego., CA
17thRSO CAL MILLENNIUMThousand Oaks., CA
17thRTEXAS ACESPearland., TX
17thRTEXAS HEATRockwall., TX
17thRSAN JOSE STING-PURPLESan Jose., CA
17thRAMERICAN ATHLETICS A'SSanta Ana., CA
17thRAFTER SHOCKSan Rafael., CA
17thRARIZONA CATSTucson., AZ
17thRSCOTTSDALE STORMScottsdale., AZ
25thRTN XPLOSIONNashville., TN
25thRVALLEY BREEZESan Fernando., CA
25thRHAVOCBroken Arrow., OK
25thRCA GRAPETTESStockton., CA
25thROAK PARK WINDMILLSOak Park., IL
25thRSALINAS STORMSalinas., CA
25thRSO. CAL SLIDERZSunland., CA
25thRFRESNO FORCE-VARGASFresno., CA

 

[SnocatzDad]

25thMINNESOTA 94 STINGNorth Mankato., MN

Just as a side note. This team was consistantly one of the top 2-3 teams (often #1) in MN for two years running and rostered all 94 birth years (except one 95) and won 13U USSSA Nationals the year before and rightly so made the decision to up the ante and play ASA as a second year 14U team. The difference in my opinion isn't limited to weather and money, the difference is that the CA teams have tons of quality local opponents to pound on each weekend while teams like the MN Sting 94 could play up an age bracket in MN and still dominate many tournaments. It is too hard to expect kids to work past being the best that they have seen. The other big factor here is that in MN you are not allowed to put together an open ASA roster prior to 14U according to local ASA rules. That means that you won't see a 12U ASA A or 10U ASA A team that isn't formed from kids from the same area (i.e. school district, or same town) so there is little exposure when they are young to just how good some of the teams are nationally to drive the kids to work harder to compete at that level.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

livingontheroad, I finally was able to pull up final national results using another site besides ASA. Some of those teams carry 14-17 players. How many does ASA allow on the roster? And my next big question, how in the world do you keep 17 players and parents happy? Assuming 2-3 pitcher only's, and fielding the best 8.

 

[livingontheroad]

Beats me. I counted 15 on one of the prominent teams once and wondered about that too. Met up with one team that travelled with only one pitcher, pitched every game. Not an overwhelming pitcher either, but their bats more than made up for it.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

We got a girl in TN, one of the best I've ever seen in any age group, and any of the 20+ states we have played.. She is a 14u, but plays 16 and 18 too. She will pitch 7-8 FULL games over a 2 day tourney. I'm like WTF?? She's 5'2, and maybe 120 wet. But she has got some sweet movement and 2 killer changes, dead on. I've never seen anything like it.

And no, she does not play for us. But I wish she did.

 

[amanda_cake]

We got a girl in TN, one of the best I've ever seen in any age group, and any of the 20+ states we have played.. She is a 14u, but plays 16 and 18 too. She will pitch 7-8 FULL games over a 2 day tourney. I'm like WTF?? She's 5'2, and maybe 120 wet. But she has got some sweet movement and 2 killer changes, dead on. I've never seen anything like it.

And no, she does not play for us. But I wish she did.

Remember her name, you'll probably see her on TV some day.