What would you do?

[02Crush]

I put 1st year together a 10U Tournament/Travel Ball Team last summer. We pulled 7 kids who performed well from Rec Ball and moved into TB by recruiting 4 more. We have since lost all but one of the 4 new players who were not with me from rec ball. We then lost a couple who did come with me from rec ball. All the while I recruit, coach and teach in the core philosophy that I have held, that we are teaching young players how to play the game over the long term despite the wins and losses. Every player held a primary position and secondary position so we could attempt to win and develop some consistencies in positions. However Every player works out and practices every skill (except pitching) on the occasion they want to try another position. As a matter of fact last night we just completed out skills tryout allowing all players to tryout for any position they wanted to in an attempt to showcase what they learned and developed outside of their familiar positions played. It is a way to give them a goal and also a way to ensure I do not develop blinders as to what my players can do. We do this every 6 months.

Bottom line is this....I have remained loyal to my players despite lacking top tier ability and skills to win now. I was loyal to all of my players despite their level of play. The only one I have cut was due to a parents problems that effected the team from outside the fence line. All other chose to leave me due to "not winning enough". Sadly, those who left missed us moving from a 4-20 team in the fall to a 15-27-1 team who placed 2nd in two events this spring. A large feat for a team with out limited ability and we finished strong this past weekend so the fall looks good.

With that background out of the way....
I found out through a PC who coaches batting for many on my team that 3 players of my team (all came to TB with me from Rec Ball) were going to tryout for my biggest competitors within the county. He and I are like Wylie Coyote and the Sheep Dog. We get along but we are always interested in what the other is doing. He has a team a bit better than mine. After some research, he did not solicit them. They in fact responded to his adds for a tryout and went. This was then verified by a phone call to me from a friend who was there for their daughter (not on my team but we know each other).

I am hurt by this and now feel that if I was loyal to them and they now are not proving to be that to me. I feel this opens the door for me to take some players (many of whom are interested in our team) with better skill sets and abilities to help the team and then cut these players. I feel the umbrella of loyalty is gone on both sides.

So am I over reacting? What would you do?

 

[Momo'sDad]

I put 1st year together a 10U Tournament/Travel Ball Team last summer. We pulled 7 kids who performed well from Rec Ball and moved into TB by recruiting 4 more. We have since lost all but one of the 4 new players who were not with me from rec ball. We then lost a couple who did come with me from rec ball. All the while I recruit, coach and teach in the core philosophy that I have held, that we are teaching young players how to play the game over the long term despite the wins and losses. Every player held a primary position and secondary position so we could attempt to win and develop some consistencies in positions. However Every player works out and practices every skill (except pitching) on the occasion they want to try another position. As a matter of fact last night we just completed out skills tryout allowing all players to tryout for any position they wanted to in an attempt to showcase what they learned and developed outside of their familiar positions played. It is a way to give them a goal and also a way to ensure I do not develop blinders as to what my players can do. We do this every 6 months.

Bottom line is this....I have remained loyal to my players despite lacking top tier ability and skills to win now. I was loyal to all of my players despite their level of play. The only one I have cut was due to a parents problems that effected the team from outside the fence line. All other chose to leave me due to "not winning enough". Sadly, those who left missed us moving from a 4-20 team in the fall to a 15-27-1 team who placed 2nd in two events this spring. A large feat for a team with out limited ability and we finished strong this past weekend so the fall looks good.

With that background out of the way....
I found out through a PC who coaches batting for many on my team that 3 players of my team (all came to TB with me from Rec Ball) were going to tryout for my biggest competitors within the county. He and I are like Wylie Coyote and the Sheep Dog. We get along but we are always interested in what the other is doing. He has a team a bit better than mine. After some research, he did not solicit them. They in fact responded to his adds for a tryout and went. This was then verified by a phone call to me from a friend who was there for their daughter (not on my team but we know each other).

I am hurt by this and now feel that if I was loyal to them and they now are not proving to be that to me. I feel this opens the door for me to take some players (many of whom are interested in our team) with better skill sets and abilities to help the team and then cut these players. I feel the umbrella of loyalty is gone on both sides.

So am I over reacting? What would you do?

Congrats on finding the win column a bit more this spring. Long-term, you and I know that they don't matter in the great scheme, but in the short-term, they go a long way towards keeping parents happy and supportive of your program.

If I have read correctly, it sounds like your original core of 7 is now down to 3. Going into your 2nd year, that's pretty normal. IMO, 5 was about the best you could hope for. Unless you were a coach that placed a high premium on winning 10u games and tournaments with a 9yo team and achieved that, keeping all 7 was unlikely to happen.

Are you guys playing any July tourneys? If not, just go ahead and start getting ready for tryouts. Some of the 10u start-ups are already recruiting and holding tryouts here. Everyone will have an opportunity to earn a spot on the team. If you choose not to take certain players back, no one can legitimately fault you. You have to try to field the players and families that best fit what your program hopes to achieve over the next year.

As an aside, you feel what you feel, but don't personalize this issue because you feel your coaching rival may be benefitting from this perceived betrayal. It can be a very dirty game, but when you're here for the girls - which not all coaches are - you have to keep your ego at bay. Your program isn't for every family and that's fine, but you are obviously committed to building a strong program for your players and as long as you stick to that philosophy, then you will be proving an excellent opportunity to any player who's lucky enough to make your team.

 

[quincy]

I have learned that it is all about DD. You teach DD how play the game and skills, why should she stick around for other players to have the same opportunities?

 

[Momo'sDad]

02Crush, yours is an excellent cautionary tale for most of us. Coincidentally, I just told a mom a week or so ago that her Dream Team plan was just that, a dream. The coaches and most the the 10yo's playing comp this summer and fall have now elected not to return for another season of rec next spring, even though I had agreed to move my DD up and take a team which would've made it our strongest ever season for 12u in our league. There are good arguments both ways on whether most of them could use another season of rec at all, but it seems all the minds are made up now, especially since this was the first 10u team from our league to earn a spot at (western) Nationals. The mindset is that there is nothing left for these girls to accomplish in rec.

I know there's an emotional high at this time, but she sincerely believes that these 10 or so girls will remain together for the next 3-4 years of TB and I just shook my head and told her it absolutely would not happen. I didn't tell her I know that 3 of those current players are being actively recruited by other coaches, including at least 1 coach who'll do anything he can to drive a wedge between people when it comes to trying to get a player.

I think it is a great idea to keep a core group of girls together when 1st leaving rec to go full-time TB, but in areas where the softball is as competitive as you have there in GA or as we have in NorCal, it's just not reasonable to expect that you'll be able to hold such a group together beyond year 1. There are just too many different agendas in play.

 

[Momo'sDad]

I have learned that it is all about DD. You teach DD how play the game and skills, why should she stick around for other players to have the same opportunities?

Here's where I differ from the average bear.

I've said it before and I'll keep on saying it, but my DD did not become a star in a vacuum. All the kids she grew up playing with are a part of her success and the same is true for every other star player as well. I know your DD is 11, but is she really losing out on softball opportunities by playing rec this season with a shot at making All-stars? I talk with high-level coaches every week and almost all agree that a college prospect does not need TB until she's 14u.

The strongest rec leagues in CA have girls who do both rec and TB. They play TB for the competition and they play rec to be with their friends or possibly for skills development in the case where she might play LF for her TB team but gets to play SS or pitch in rec. Having quality players still involved with the rec programs is what makes them strong.

One reason our All-star team is doing so well is that we returned 5 players and 2 coaches (plus me) from last year and because a majority of those girls played comp last fall, too, a chance they did not have previously when a certain group of parents/board members tried to prevent fall ball from being open to the whole league. I'd love for us to do the same for next year's class in terms of leaving the cupboard full, but a couple of the 9yo's are likely going ASA. My DD is open to coming back, but only if she can play ASA, too. My wife HATES the idea of doing another season of 10u rec and I cannot get her beyond that feeling. She doesn't care about doing what would be so good for our league. Her only concern is hastening DD's development by pushing her to full-time A ball ASAP and we cannot agree on this issue, because she is convinced that the less experienced players are holding Mojo back.

 

[Ken Krause]

02 Crush, unfortunately yours is a very common tale. Here in America we're way too obsessed with winning, and many are willing to sacrifice long-term skills development to get a win today. In other words, they're willing to let the kids use poor technique as long as they win. That works for a while, but as they get older and the later developers develop and things even out more, those who haven't developed are surprised when they're suddenly not the top dogs anymore.

You're doing the right thing for your players even if they (and their parents) don't recognize it.

Don't take it personally. Just learn the lesson. You don't owe anybody anything. If those players want to leave, let them leave and replace them with players who buy in to your philosophy and want to be developed.

One thing people don't realize when they leave one team to go on a better, more-established team is their kids may be seeing the bench a lot more, and when they do get on the field they may not be in the positions they want. They will also learn a lesson -- be careful what you wish for.

 

[softballphreak]

I put 1st year together a 10U Tournament/Travel Ball Team last summer. We pulled 7 kids who performed well from Rec Ball and moved into TB by recruiting 4 more. We have since lost all but one of the 4 new players who were not with me from rec ball. We then lost a couple who did come with me from rec ball. All the while I recruit, coach and teach in the core philosophy that I have held, that we are teaching young players how to play the game over the long term despite the wins and losses. Every player held a primary position and secondary position so we could attempt to win and develop some consistencies in positions. However Every player works out and practices every skill (except pitching) on the occasion they want to try another position. As a matter of fact last night we just completed out skills tryout allowing all players to tryout for any position they wanted to in an attempt to showcase what they learned and developed outside of their familiar positions played. It is a way to give them a goal and also a way to ensure I do not develop blinders as to what my players can do. We do this every 6 months.

Bottom line is this....I have remained loyal to my players despite lacking top tier ability and skills to win now. I was loyal to all of my players despite their level of play. The only one I have cut was due to a parents problems that effected the team from outside the fence line. All other chose to leave me due to "not winning enough". Sadly, those who left missed us moving from a 4-20 team in the fall to a 15-27-1 team who placed 2nd in two events this spring. A large feat for a team with out limited ability and we finished strong this past weekend so the fall looks good.

With that background out of the way....
I found out through a PC who coaches batting for many on my team that 3 players of my team (all came to TB with me from Rec Ball) were going to tryout for my biggest competitors within the county. He and I are like Wylie Coyote and the Sheep Dog. We get along but we are always interested in what the other is doing. He has a team a bit better than mine. After some research, he did not solicit them. They in fact responded to his adds for a tryout and went. This was then verified by a phone call to me from a friend who was there for their daughter (not on my team but we know each other).

I am hurt by this and now feel that if I was loyal to them and they now are not proving to be that to me. I feel this opens the door for me to take some players (many of whom are interested in our team) with better skill sets and abilities to help the team and then cut these players. I feel the umbrella of loyalty is gone on both sides.

So am I over reacting? What would you do?

Hate to say this because it shouldn't be this way in Pleasant Valley, but the loyalty thing will hold you back if you want to succeed. Find the best players (when it's time to find the players—not during the season usually) and replace the weaker ones with the stronger ones. Most everything in the world works that way.

 

[Momo'sDad]

02 Crush, unfortunately yours is a very common tale. Here in America we're way too obsessed with winning, and many are willing to sacrifice long-term skills development to get a win today. In other words, they're willing to let the kids use poor technique as long as they win. That works for a while, but as they get older and the later developers develop and things even out more, those who haven't developed are surprised when they're suddenly not the top dogs anymore.

You're doing the right thing for your players even if they (and their parents) don't recognize it.

Don't take it personally. Just learn the lesson. You don't owe anybody anything. If those players want to leave, let them leave and replace them with players who buy in to your philosophy and want to be developed.

One thing people don't realize when they leave one team to go on a better, more-established team is their kids may be seeing the bench a lot more, and when they do get on the field they may not be in the positions they want. They will also learn a lesson -- be careful what you wish for.

So true. We had a parent quit our team recently and it was pretty inexplicable from anyone else's perspective. The mom and dad thought DD should be splitting time with our starting catcher and also believed she should be an every inning player, regardless of position, despite leading the team in K's by a great margin. Great kid and a team player from where I sat, but the parents simply did not get it.

We wish this player the best, but with their attitude and vision, they will never find a suitable team for their DD. Because the player is so raw, if she is taken by any team, my prediction is that they'd be taking the family on just to help keep everyone else's fees down until either the team finds a better player or the family decides again to go off in search of greener pastures.

As a coach, don't be too eager to get those slots filled until you feel confident the parents are onboard with what you are trying to do. You be Road Runner - let that other coach deal with the crazies.

 

[LAdad]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. The intensity level of anyone who signs up a 9YO for year-round travel ball pretty much guarantees that they put a high value on winning.

Even if they understand that the emphasis is on development, for most the only way to judge whether the development strategy is working is by whether you win. And while their are plenty of parents who see equal playing time as a good general policy, there are extremely few parents who appreciate that if it wasn't for that policy their DD would be spending a lot more time on the bench.

I'm not saying you should put more emphasis on winning, not at all: I think your coaching strategy is just fine. But don't take it personal when someone wants to test the waters with some other team. (If it really was personal, I'm sure they'd let you know.) Even though you don't draft a new team on a year by year basis, high turnover at the end of summer is pretty much a given in TB.

 

[Momo'sDad]

At 9u? All I can say is wow. Just how do you keep the desire to win until eighth grade, never mind college? Burn out city.

Oh, don't worry - the crazy 9u parents will still be wanting to win then, too.

LAdad nailed it when he said that those parents who obsess over having their 8u and 10u-age players exclusively in TB generally put a high value on winning. That's why a lot of teams will duck 'down' and play the occasional NSA tournament instead of playing all ASA here. Those (easy) wins can help to simmer down the parents for a couple weeks. As you might expect, the parents don't even seem to notice that the kids care a lot less than they do about wins.