What drives the hips open?

[Stand an]

Are there threads that explain how to use the hips during the leap? This topic is one that i struggle to grasp. The trouble i have is explaining to dd when and how the hips should be opening. Do the hips open as the byproduct of the launch or is it a conscious action that takes place mid leap? Or maybe it's the pushing of the lead leg? Does the drag foot pull them open or is it the shoulder rotation that causes the hips to open? No pc's in my area teach i/r with open mechanics so i'm trying my best to help my dd. i can't teach it until i understand it.

Thank you.
Stand an

 

[starsnuffer]

It is a concious action that takes place mid leap. It is important to teach it as two seperate motions. The leg drive is the knee and stride foot straight towards the catcher.

If she is starting by kicking the leg forward and across to open the hips she is doing it wrong.

It is exactly similar to the differences between a round house kick in karate, whereas the knee comes up first and then the hips snap open and then the quad fires to drive the leg straight, and a round house kick in taekwondo where the leg arcs from standstill towards the target in one motion. I'll leave that analogy with the consideration that Korea never achieved victory against any other Asian nation except itself throughout history.

-W

 

[Stand an]

Starsnuffer, what would you say are the two seperate parts? And could you explain when each of those two parts need to happen? She is doing it wrong, exactly as you described it as wrong as a matter of fact.

Thank you

 

[starsnuffer]

Sure, the first part is the driving of the stride knee upward and towards the catcher. The second part is the opening or rotating of the hips. This opening happens at the peak of the stride when the pitcher is basically weightless due to the energy imparted by the push and stride.

A variation of the flamingo drill can be used to teach this. Basically the pitcher stands on their pivot leg and holds their stride foot an inch or so from the ground, getting their balance. Both hands are out in front (ball in glove if the pitcher's windup starts that way, hands separate if they have a backswing).

Now the pitcher lifts the stride knee upwards so that the thigh is parallel with the ground. The pitcher rises to the ball of their pivot foot. The pitcher maintains balance.

Next the pitcher rotates on their pivot foot (ball of foot) as they open their hips and extend their leg straight, toes towards the catcher. The pitcher leans their body back to maintain balance and they hold this position.

Next, the pitcher pushes themselves forward towards the catcher with their pivot foot as they begin their arm circle. The pitcher lands on the ball of their stride foot with the foot 45 degrees and establishes positive resistance (pushes back with the stride leg) to create the pendulum that drives the arm whip as the pitcher pitches the ball to the catcher.

This drill is very hard at first, and the pitchers often fall all over the place and put their feet down to maintain balance. However, the entire drill is a core exercise, and in a few weeks of practice the pitchers are executing it smoothly and throwing the ball accurately.

The actual pitching motion is MUCH easier then the drill because the speed and power initiated at stride causes lift and movement that eliminates much of the need for balance and strength. However, the drill is very useful in both explaining the separate movements and working on balance which helps the pitcher in all things.

I learned this drill from Kirk Walker (UCLA pitching coach).

-W

 

[starsnuffer]

Something to add: Many pitchers that "do it wrong" and try to stride and open all in one motion end up with their butt facing the catcher at some point which makes them tweak their torso, hips, and shoulders and fly wildly with their glove. I've used this drill to correct this issue.

-W

 

[Doug Romrell]

Sure, the first part is the driving of the stride knee upward and towards the catcher. The second part is the opening or rotating of the hips. This opening happens at the peak of the stride when the pitcher is basically weightless due to the energy imparted by the push and stride.

A variation of the flamingo drill can be used to teach this. Basically the pitcher stands on their pivot leg and holds their stride foot an inch or so from the ground, getting their balance. Both hands are out in front (ball in glove if the pitcher's windup starts that way, hands separate if they have a backswing).

Now the pitcher lifts the stride knee upwards so that the thigh is parallel with the ground. The pitcher rises to the ball of their pivot foot. The pitcher maintains balance.

Next the pitcher rotates on their pivot foot (ball of foot) as they open their hips and extend their leg straight, toes towards the catcher. The pitcher leans their body back to maintain balance and they hold this position.

Next, the pitcher pushes themselves forward towards the catcher with their pivot foot as they begin their arm circle. The pitcher lands on the ball of their stride foot with the foot 45 degrees and establishes positive resistance (pushes back with the stride leg) to create the pendulum that drives the arm whip as the pitcher pitches the ball to the catcher.

This drill is very hard at first, and the pitchers often fall all over the place and put their feet down to maintain balance. However, the entire drill is a core exercise, and in a few weeks of practice the pitchers are executing it smoothly and throwing the ball accurately.

The actual pitching motion is MUCH easier then the drill because the speed and power initiated at stride causes lift and movement that eliminates much of the need for balance and strength. However, the drill is very useful in both explaining the separate movements and working on balance which helps the pitcher in all things.

I learned this drill from Kirk Walker (UCLA pitching coach).

-W

I like your description of what should happen.

 

[javasource]

Do the hips open as the byproduct of the launch or is it a conscious action that takes place mid leap?

Once the stride leg reaches maximum extension, it needs to start heading down. This downward travel has the sole purpose of setting the foot/stride angle. That angle is 45. The result is that the foot/leg internally rotates.

Does the drag foot pull them open or is it the shoulder rotation that causes the hips to open?

Neither. The stride foot angle sets the hip angle. If you plant at 90, hips will open to 90. Plant at 45, hips open to 45... etc... The stride foot angle also sets the shoulder angle... or opens it... but the arm circle will add to the initial angle. This is why people that set @ 45, often have shoulders that open to 60-70.

The only issues I see is when the sequence of opening happens the wrong way... shoulders to ground. It needs to be from the ground up. The correct sequence is: 1)Feet, 2)Hips, 3)Shoulders. If you seethe shoulders setting an angle before the foot does - then the torso will become disconnected. To prevent this... do it in order.

No pc's in my area teach i/r with open mechanics so i'm trying my best to help my dd. i can't teach it until i understand it.

Don't teach it. Teach setting the stride foot angle. The rest just happens. It's as simple (or should be) as this:

The stride foot sets the angle (opens).
The drive foot & leg will either prevent a close, or initiate a close.

Not sure why you're hoping to teach i/r with open mechanics... I read that as staying open the whole time... and IMO, should not be a goal of yours.

 

[HOF86]

Can someone post a pic of open hips and shoulder vs closed hips and shoulders.

 

[javasource]

HOF86, here you go.

Opening:

Closing:

As evidenced by some of the best... you'll see that opening is important... as is closing. They happen in response to the pitching movements, namely in response to the feet.

There are NO top-level pitchers whose door doesn't start closing as they go from 12 o'clock to release.

And another thing... I know that a door that is closing is still 'open' until it is 'closed'. But... that's a semantics thing - and really isn't helpful for those that are trying to figure this out. In pitching, they are either opening or closing. It's all about where they were previously... if the shoulders/hips were more open then they are at the moment of comparison, then they are closing... and vice versa...

 

[Ken B]

Gascoigne?