was I right or wrong

[pitchmom]

A couple years ago I was coaching 3rd base for our first year U12 team. I was not the head coach. It was a close game and if we won, we would have advanced....if we lost, we were done.

We had one on 1st and one on 2nd. The batter hit the ball and ran to 1st....the 2nd was heading to me. Just then, something happened at 1st (I'm not sure if our runner tripped, slipped or ran into the 1st baseman). Our runner went down hard and was screaming (I was thinking broken leg).

I held the runner at 3rd and watched to make sure our runner was ok. The ump behind the plate went to 1st and the entire game stopped. This was more then just a scratch. She actually ended up going in for xrays.

After the runner was taken from the field...we were left with bases loaded. The runner that came to 3rd, the runner that went to 2nd and the hurt runner got a pinch runner for her. Apperantly, whatever happened, she was safe.

The next batter up...struck out (she was probably in shock from what just happened), but that was our 3rd out and the game was over. We lost by 1 run

After the game, the head coach told me that it was my fault that we lost. He said that the game doesn't stop unless blue stops it and just because a player was hurt and the ump went to 1st...since he didn't oficially stop the game, I could have continued sending runners and we would have won.

Now, my problem is this. When a child is hurt....that is all that matters at that moment. I suspose that it was the mom in me....but all I could see or think about was that the little girl was ok....not the score or winning.

Was I in the wrong. Was I a weak 3rd base coach because I didn't have the aptitude to stay calm and keep things into perspecticve...WINNING

On a sided note, it was the end of the season and I had coached 3rd base all season long. I was very aggresive down there and never got any complaints.

What would you all have done?

 

[Quake Softball]

I had a similar situation a couple of years ago at 10U. We had the bases loaded and our batter hit a fly ball to right center. All I saw was the ball laying on the outfield grass. I kept waving runners around and our girls got a game-winning grand slam. After the play was over i noticed the centerfielder laying on the ground unable to get up. If I would have noticed that that girl was injured I would have stopped my runners. I went to apologize to the other coach but he wasn't very happy. So, I think you did the right thing.

 

[Ken Krause]

Since it doesn't sound like coaching third base is your primary occupation, and you were not coaching for a major college in the WCWS, I'd say you made the right decision. Even if you were doing all that it's still the right decision.

When there is a significant injury, it takes precedence over scoring runs or winning a stupid softball game. Any halfway decent human being would realize that. To be more concerned about the outcome of a game than the fact that a player was hurt and had to leave the field doesn't say much for that coach either.

Beyond that, there is never just one thing that causes a team to lose a softball game. Assuming seven innings, if your team had scored more runs in the previous six innings it wouldn't have come to that last out, or whether you sent runners home with a player down.

My final thought: if he didn't like the way you were coaching third base he should've stepped up and done it himself. The view is always better from the cheap seats.

 

[sluggers]

I disagree about this. The rules are pretty clear--injured players are to be attended to after the play is finished. At any high level of play, coaches and players are aware of the rule.

One of my DD's played basketball in rec ball, travel ball, HS, and college. I've witnessed concussions, torn ACls, broken bones and lots and lots of twisted knees and ankles. The rule is the same in all sports--injured players are attended to AFTER the action stops. So, it is common to see a player in agony while the other team goes down and scores. The parents get upset, everyone screams at the referees, but that is the rule.

And, yes, I have seen both of my DDs down on the ground screaming in pain, and yes I was upset that play didn't stop. But, the rule is that the game continues until play stops for some reason other than the injury.

 

[Cannonball]

Sympathetic to the head coach? He doesn't have the guts to get out and coach the most demanding coaching box and wants to have the ability to second guess the person that does. Good thing it wasn't me. I'd tell him to take a hike. (No, not those words and you get the point.) Listen, I can't stand no neck people who second guess those that are in the fray. Sitting in that dugout for this guy is a security blanket so that he doesn't have to be accountable for coaching on the field. JMHO!

 

[bobbyb]

You kept things in perspective... he didn't. Its a game...injury is not. The fact that a coach would say it was your fault for the lost...tells you alot about the man...and those things aren't good. You were right imo.

 

[softball_chic_12]

i understand why you did what you did. but my thing is....why didn't you send the runner on 3rd when the ball was hit? is it because of where the ball was hit? if it was hit close to 3rd then i understand why you did what you did. but if not, i would have sent her and then probably only realized that the runner at 1st was down. in which case i would have stopped all runners and done everything you did. but because of how you explained it, i'd say you were in the right. it's just a game after all. not life or death. yea, maybe your team wont have that opportunity again, but that girl could have been seriously injured. and if you didn't stop the runners then you would have looked bad and the head coach probably would have yelled at you for having the runners keep going instead of being concerned about the girl. it's always best to error on the safe side.

 

[Quake Softball]

I disagree about this. The rules are pretty clear--injured players are to be attended to after the play is finished. At any high level of play, coaches and players are aware of the rule.

One of my DD's played basketball in rec ball, travel ball, HS, and college. I've witnessed concussions, torn ACls, broken bones and lots and lots of twisted knees and ankles. The rule is the same in all sports--injured players are attended to AFTER the action stops. So, it is common to see a player in agony while the other team goes down and scores. The parents get upset, everyone screams at the referees, but that is the rule.

And, yes, I have seen both of my DDs down on the ground screaming in pain, and yes I was upset that play didn't stop. But, the rule is that the game continues until play stops for some reason other than the injury.

I think World Cup Soccer is probably the highest level you can get as far as intensity and wanting to win goes. There is no rule that you have to stop play for an injury but the other team will kick the ball out of bounds on purpose to stop the play. Then the opposing team does the same thing to give the ball back. It isn't about rules it is about sportsmanship.

 

[pitchmom]

There was no runner on 3rd when the ball was hit......there was a runner on 2nd and by the time the runner got to 3rd...the screaming had started.

Thanks everyone. I would love to send the thread to him, but it has been over and done with for a couple years. No sense in opening up that can of worms. And yes, he was the type of coach that wanted the win at any cost and needed hie ego stroked through 12 year old little girls. We left that team after that season and haven't looked back.

 

[BretMan]

I can't really say that there is any "right" or "wrong" way to handle this as the third base coach. I would say that the head coach is kind of a jerk for his comment about it being "your fault we lost the game".

Last time I checked, each team had 21 outs to burn while attempting to score runs and 21 outs to retire the other side in a seven inning game. Seldom is a game won or lost on a single play. If your team was behind in the final inning, they must have squandered plenty of opportunities to either score or prevent the other team from scoring throughout the game. You no more "lost the game" than did the player who subsequently struck out with the bases loaded, all the batters the failed to get hits in the first six innings, the runner that made a baserunning mistake in the first inning, the kid that made an error in the third inning or the pitcher that gave up the other team's hits and runs.

All that said...at a competetive level the premise is usually to keep playing until the officials tell you to stop. This seems to be getting framed as an "either/or" decision. Either you stop playing and are considered a weak failure as a coach or continue playing and are regarded as some souless low-life with no sympathy for the players. I don't realy see this as being one or the other.

Suppose you had sent the runner. How long does it take to run from third to home? Maybe four seconds? Is there really anything you could have done in those four seconds that would have had any material effect on the degree of this injury or the quality of medical care the injured player might have received?

Was there a play being made at first base? If the ball was in the infield, sending the runner might not have been a smart move anyway. I guess if she got thrown out at home, that would have been your fault too. Sometimes you just can't win...

Even if you had sent the runner and she scored, the game would have been tied. Who's to say what might have happened after that? Your next hitter didn't get it done and that means you would have been playing another inning.

Since the plate umpire abandoned his position (and being in the vicinity of home plate with a live ball and the tying run on third base is his priority), he may have already killed the play whether anyone realized it or not. We don't know for sure, since you didn't mention any of that and apparently it wasn't discussed or made clear.

Baseball and softball umpires are not instructed to "always let the play continue". They are instructed to call time if the injury is of a nature that calls for "immediate medical attention". While they should not stop play over every little bump and bruise, they may in extreme circumstances. I don't really think that a player tripping and falling fits the bill. Again, would continuation of play for another few seconds have put this injured player in any further jeopardy? Most likely not.

I don't mean to sound callous, but injuries requiring "immediate" medical attention don't usually include trips, falls, sprains or even a potential broken limb. None of those are likely to "get worse" or cause the player further harm if play continues a few more seconds. A head injury, an unconsious player or an injury accompanied by excessive blood might and umpires may stop play as they see fit.

If an umpire does stop a play due to an injury, it is within his power to award bases or place runners at bases that, in his judgment, they would have reached had he not called time. That all can become moot when all of the players, both offense and defense, have stopped playing on their own, as they apparently did here. Then, the play has ended on its own and that is the result you get.

While the standard might be "keep playing until you hear the whistle", it would be hard for me to say that you personally "lost the game" because you didn't.