Want more information of the moment of release

[Sparky Guy]

OK. Here comes a generic answer.

Have her place her toes on the powerline, shoulder width apart or just a little bit farther and at 45-degrees.

Have her make three arm circles and not release until the 3rd circle is complete.

DO NOT MOVE THE FEET AT ALL.

That was the first place I started with her. She is getting better, but when she wants to put something extra on the pitch she'll revert back to slamming the hip. It's a work in progress. When she stays open she delivers a real nice pitch.

What I'll also do is have them place their left foot(RHP) on a bucket and do full arm circles so they get the feeling of keeping their weight back at the release point. The exaggeration of the left foot up seems to help keep the weight back during a full pitch. I also helps reenforce keeping the hips open at the time of release. This is really effective with beginners who have trouble keeping their balance when doing stork drills.

 

[tomzpc]

I fully understand that and have to agree.

What bothers me ( being a really old instructor) is to see what is a very generic question answered with a very specific answer. Fact being. the best and correct answer for one pitcher might be the absolute wrong answer for another. Unfortunately, it turns into well meaning but bad advice.

Sometimes us 'old farts' have to step up and just say "Now wait a minute here...." and point these things out in so many other words.

As an example, I have no idea how many hundreds of hours I have spent un-teaching bad habits that were taught by coach Dad, having learned them from videos, DVDs or softball message boards. Misinterpreted information is very commonly taught to daughters.

Trying to say something as "I have been through this many times" often ends up sounding more like "I'm smarter than you" and that's not the case at all.

Sometimes those 'Bad habits' are very hard to break and very frustrating for an instructor AND the student.

Where I'm from the bad habits are often taught by the instructors believe it or not.

 

[Ken Krause]

Sparky, try having her focus on dragging the toes on her right foot behind the heel of her left foot. I've often found that this simple direction helps prevent them from trying to slam the hips closed. It's not a panacea -- the ones really determined to slam the hips can sort of do this and still close up -- but for most it seems to help make the transition from standing and staying open to moving and staying open.

The three arm circle is a good one too, by the way. I use it for lots of issues, including stiff arms and slow arms.

 

[Jojo]

Amen Brother!! Amen Brother!! Amen Brother!! Amen Brother!!

I have girl I'm working with right now who was taught to slam the hip. It's been a struggle for her to make the change.

It's been 2 months and I'm still struggling a with a student that was taught to completely stop her arm at release/ no follow through whatsoever.

 

[Jojo]

That was the first place I started with her. She is getting better, but when she wants to put something extra on the pitch she'll revert back to slamming the hip. It's a work in progress. When she stays open she delivers a real nice pitch.

What I'll also do is have them place their left foot(RHP) on a bucket and do full arm circles so they get the feeling of keeping their weight back at the release point. The exaggeration of the left foot up seems to help keep the weight back during a full pitch. I also helps reenforce keeping the hips open at the time of release. This is really effective with beginners who have trouble keeping their balance when doing stork drills.

I have a couple of these students right now and I also implement all these drills with them. For the more stubborn ones I've found that placing their feet together at a 45 degree angle along with their hips and shoulders, and have them reach back and release helps a lot.
After just a few releases, they start getting the idea that they can in fact still release the ball at the back hip and still throw hard and even more accurately than when they start slinging their whole body around at release.

 

[starsnuffer]

There is no such thing as a "release point". It is really a "release zone". During a proper pitch, one in which the elbow leads the downswing and the pitcher "pulls" the ball down through the pitch, the elbow will reach the pitchers side in the same fashion that a hitter achieves "connection" during a good swing. The elbow and upper arm will actually stop here, and this is when arm whip happens. The lower arm and hand will rotate from the back of the pitchers rear thigh to the front of the pitchers thigh and continue a few inches in front of the pitchers rear (pivot) leg thigh. During this time, the release takes place. Release depends on the pitch, of course, but generally the thumb will leave the ball first, followed by any support fingers, with the middle finger being the last to leave the ball (given a 3 finger grip). This takes place over about an 8-12 inch release zone. The hand and pitching arm will then actually extend outwards completely in the direction of the pitch. From this point, the pitcher does whatever "follow through" they are taught, without ever realizing that their arm already followed through. This happens faster then anything other then a high-speed camera can capture.

Mike White showed a video of this very thing at an ASA coaching convention this last weekend. You can get ahold of him through the University of Oregon website, and maybe he can get the video to you.

-W

 

[starsnuffer]

Wait a minute. This is a rollover drop, not a fastball or peel. Tincher threw that. Not good for newbies and not for youngsters until age 13-14, preferably when they have stopped growing. See her video below.

Player with Description

That's not a rollover, it's a peel. Her hand doesn't actually turn over until the ball is released, due to the fact that she's chicken-winging because she's letting her rear leg drag too hard and then "forcing" the pitch by rotating her hip through. The reason she's a great pitcher is because she does all that "bad" stuff after she's actually released the ball.

A rollover drop will have the pitcher actually driving their thumb and forfinger (sideways) down hard after the ball, and is very easy to spot due to the direction of follow through.

-W

 

[lhowser]

I beg to differ. Did you see the video I posted, where she talks about how she does it? I have also seen Angela in person many times....

The pitch she is throwing in the pink shirt must NOT be the same rollover pitch she is throwing in the video you linked to. At least not according to her coach in the video who keeps saying the key is finishing with "knuckles down...knuckles down".

 

[tojo]

The difference in the two pitchs is one is thrown at full speed and the other is a demonstration. It is almost impossible to finish with knuckles down and close to the thigh with the arm moving forward at full arm speed.

 

[howellhandmade]

While reading this (posted in the forum) I noticed the finish to the rollover drop in the photo! This is the 'knuckles to the ground' described in the (2nd) Tincher video. It may now be completely at the end of the motion. You also see the shoulder pushed forward and weight forward.

I can't stand the look of that pitch. It may be effective and I may be wrong about this, but it just LOOKS like it hurts. Or like it's about to.