walking the runner back

[MsDinosaur]

My first year 12U DD has done both and IMO it's not a bad thing to mix it up a little so that you're not completely predictable. I think she prefers to walk them back because she likes to intimidate runners and see them scrambling back to the bag. If she can get them backing up too slowly or sees them stumble a bit and has gotten close enough to make a sudden charge... A lot depends upon what the coach is telling her and who’s playing first. (Her buddy from her old team was taught to come running down to cover home, but if the first baseman doesn’t down come to cover then she has to stay put.)

I remember one time when she obviously didn't freeze the runner well enough and threw right back to the pitcher, who, unfortunately, also spaced out a little and turned her back to the runner on third. The runner scored on a delayed steal. DD didn’t say a thing, but the look on her face…

 

[Momo'sDad]

The funniest thing I have seen on this was a runner was on third base. Batter walks and first base coach tells her to keep going to second base after she had reached first base. In the mean time, DGD had thrown the ball back hard to the pitcher. DGD saw runner was going so she shouted to throw to 2. Second baseman was standing at second base with the ball when the runner arrived. Runner was so shocked she did not even slide. That was the third out and first base coach was shouting "My fault, my fault."

That's really puzzling. With the batter-runner taking the turn at 1B, why wasn't R1 prepared to go? Why didn't the third base coach send her once the ball was thrown to 2B? Why did R2 simply run into the tag instead of turning back to allow R1 time to score?

In the blame hierarchy on this play as you've described it, the first base coach was about 4th in line, so him shouting "my fault" was far from accurate.

Our 10u team is going to get that run, but I am a pretty aggressive when coaching 3rd.

 

[chinamigarden]

That's really puzzling. With the batter-runner taking the turn at 1B, why wasn't R1 prepared to go? Why didn't the third base coach send her once the ball was thrown to 2B? Why did R2 simply run into the tag instead of turning back to allow R1 time to score?

In the blame hierarchy on this play as you've described it, the first base coach was about 4th in line, so him shouting "my fault" was far from accurate.

Our 10u team is going to get that run, but I am a pretty aggressive when coaching 3rd.

I'm guessing the first base coach took the blame because it was with 2 outs. If the pitcher waits till the last second to make that throw, there is no time for the runner on 3rd to get home before the out is recorded. It is the 1st base coaches fault for not paying attention to the number of outs.

 

[tghorley]

Ok, I was not trying to get too detailed about the play but there seems to be some questions. When DGD threw the ball back to the P, she automatically turned to 3b and looked the runner back to the bag and continued to stare at her. When the BR reached about half way to second base, DGD shouts 2. The SS is covering 2nd base just looking at the runner at third not paying any attention to the BR. When the P hears 2, she pivots and throws the ball to second and the SS has now came alive and is ready to receive the ball. Once she catches the ball, the BR is about 4 steps from the SS and gets the "deer in the headlights look", did not slide and did not have a chance to turn around and go back to first. I believe if there had been less than two outs, the runner at third would not have scored as she was standing on third and if she had broke for home, she would have been dead because the SS has a very good, accurate arm.

Now the most important information. We were playing a first year 12u team and DGDs team is a second year very experienced team and most of the team has been together since 8u. And according to my DGD, they have practiced the play many times. Most of the other team's members have played on 10u teams that probably just let the BR go to second, not expecting a throw. And as for the 1b coach, he probably is not that experienced either. But I am hoping everyone learned something.

 

[02Crush]

I like catcher that are aware as well. Just don't get what walking a runner back will buy you that a nice crisp throw back to the pitcher won't. If the pitcher can't get the ball and throw it to third or home to get the delayed steal, i find it to be the pitchers fault. Maybe a fielder as well.

With a runner on third the moment the catcher commits to the throw back to pitcher a runner will go and slide in safe. Fast runners will already have a 20 lead off of 3rd and wait for you to commit elsewhere...We teach to walk back 2-3 steps so they stay close to home. When then runner commits back to 3rd then we quick toss back to pitcher. This equalizes things by adding steps for the runner giving the pitcher time to receive and throw back to the catcher if the runner turns and goes home.
Hope that makes sense.
We do it differently if the runner is over on 2nd.

 

[dadonachair]

I am not crazy about run backs, but I would say in some cases that it depends on the strength of the team. One rec ball team DD played on had a good P, but she didn't catch the ball all that well. I know it sounds weird but DD catcher had a very strong arm for a 12u and the 11u P just couldn't catch a hard throw from the C. The travel ball team was different. I am just using that as an example but you get the point of strength of team. If the C does not trust the other girls to catch the ball. Than they tend to take things into there own hands. Usually by running runners back. A good TB team should not have these problems, but a newer player to the team will have to adjust to the level of the players that they are playing with.

If you are playing a good stealing team you need to do anything you can to keep them as close to the base as you can. I think the first thing a C can do is keep eye contact with the runner let them know that you are fully aware that you know what they are thinking. You do not need to throw out the first runner of the game, but you need to scare them a little. If they steal. Come up throwing. If they just take a lead. Try to throw them out at first. Keep them close to the base. If a runner looks like they are going to delay steal, throw to the base in front of them. Make the runners think the only way they are going to get to the next base is on a passed ball or a hit.

I like what pasoftballdad said about having the 3b and SS stack up on a runner on third. It is a good way to catch a girl sleeping sometimes also. Sometimes you get that girl that forgets and just turns and is walking back to the base and listening to the coach and wham. You get her before she knows what happened. It is a play that should be practiced but takes no time to master. I like the hard throw back to the P more than anything. If a runner is taking too big of a lead for the catchers comfort than I at least want to see them freeze a runner. I don't like to see my catchers take more than a few steps when running a runner back to third. In some game situations I like to see the catcher run a runner back. If we are winning a close game and the time is running than I want to ball in the C hands till the runner is no longer in position to steal. If the C makes a quick throw and the ball is bobbled than it can cost you the game. If a C runs a runner back to third, it only cost time.

 

[sru]

My DD is a catcher and has done both the quick throw back to the pitcher and the walk-back. It depends on how she reads the runner of which way she responds. Her catching coach has instructed her to let the runner know you are watching them. That may mean stare-downs between pitches, walking back to base, quick throws to bases, whatever it takes to intimidate the runners and the other coaches. Her catching coach prefers the quick throw back to the pitcher but they have to be ready for it because that throw may be just as hard as her pitches.

She likes to make points. One game the other team yelled during warm ups that my DD didn't have an arm. So she purposely overthrew second base during warmups just about to the wall. It shutup the other team, she made her point, and they didn't even attempt a steal. That was 16u.

Same here: 16U DD will walk back a runner after every pitch if her team is winning in a timed game, especially if it is early in an innning. Strategy counts, and she doesn't really care if it slows the game down. It is also a headgame, runners challenge catchers all the time. She will take a different path when walking the 2B runner back to try and get them to go, and make the throw to 3rd. Has worked a couple times too.

 

[Momo'sDad]

With a runner on third the moment the catcher commits to the throw back to pitcher a runner will go and slide in safe. Fast runners will already have a 20 lead off of 3rd and wait for you to commit elsewhere...We teach to walk back 2-3 steps so they stay close to home. When then runner commits back to 3rd then we quick toss back to pitcher. This equalizes things by adding steps for the runner giving the pitcher time to receive and throw back to the catcher if the runner turns and goes home.
Hope that makes sense.
We do it differently if the runner is over on 2nd.

Chances are you'll manage things differently if you continue on into 12u when you'll be working with stronger, faster athletes. A lot of people don't account for the uniqueness of the 10u game, so they don't always understand why some parts of the strategies employed in 10u might still be used in 12u.

In 10u, there's no reason for the catcher not to put that runner back on 3B before returning the ball to the pitcher. It's all upside and no risk to the defense. Why give an aggressive offense any opening at all? If my runner is already a third of the way home and you don't force her back to 3B, then she's going to force you to make a play at the plate and in 10u, more often than not, we're scoring that run.

Knowing that, when they age up to 12u, I would imagine that our catchers would still use the the walk-back as one tactic to keep baserunners honest.

 

[rowdy]

All walking a runner back will accomplish is wearing out your catcher. Teach them to get the ball back to the pitcher as fast as possible. If you watch our team you would see that the ball gets back to the pitcher almost as fast as it got to the catcher and no one takes an extra base.

Remember once the pitcher has the ball in the circle the runner must return immediately to the base, or proceed to the next base, if they hesitate they are out. Oddly enough we have more kids called out for the look back than had ever advanced in the past. This has not effect on runners who are stealing, the catchers sees movement out of the corner of her eye and makes the adjustment.

 

[coachtucc]

Not sure if I agree or disagree with rowdy! I think it all depends on the level of play. I have three catchers on my 12U. One can definitely zip it back...the 2nd one can also but has been known to throw the ball away...the 3rd doesn't have the zip or quickness.
At 14u and higher, yes zip it back because the throws will be more accurate but younger than that I have seen throws in the dirt and over the pitchers head. Just my opinion.