walking the runner back

[chinamigarden]

The more the catcher walks the runner back, the more I think the runner is in the catcher's head. Once in a while, sure, but every pitch It takes up too much time, it tires out the defense and it ruins the pitchers timing. If you want to keep them close, snap a thow down to 3rd a couple of times a game and that will do more to keep them there then walking them back every pitch.

And I don't think this is the catcher's call, its up to the coach to set the tone on how he wants the runner on 3rd dealt with. My dd is a pitcher and left handed. A quick throw back to her can be turned to 3rd very fast and has resulted in an immediate out more times then walking the runner back does.

 

[Momo'sDad]

If the runner never ventures, then you don't get that out.

Who said it had to be all or none? Why just assume the extremes?

The coach does set the tone, you're right, and different coaches have different philosophies. Some are set in 1 way of thinking, others like more flexibility. If 10u kids are capable of managing certain aspects of the game, then I'm led to believe that 12u players are, too. Never coached 12u myself, though, so you've got me there, but I have seen our younger players grow a lot from being allowed to manage the things they could.

Players tend to perform better doing what they're comfortable with, regardless of their rationale for doing so. Players will also have a tendency to do what makes them successful. Trial-and-error generally works best when it's not fully micro-managed.

I don't know the softball IQ of the player in question, but I don't expect textbook perfection from 12u ball players.

 

[KevinC]

I agree having the catcher walk the runners back on every pitch slows things down too much. A good throw back to the pitcher and the lookback rule should get the runners back where you want them.

 

[lhowser]

On the teams I coach I definately discourage catcher from the walk back. I tell them it is a head game that they will not do at a higher level. Freeze the runner, throw it back to the pitcher and be ready for a return throw if the try a delay. When the players are aware and trained a delay steal is an extremly bad risk. It should fail 90% of the time. Bad odds for offense to burn a runner at third. When at a young age the runner take a really defiant lead I just have 3rd shadow them two steps ahead down the baseline and have shortstop at the base. A snap now to the third baseman and the runner is in big trouble.

 

[InTheCrowd]

Question how does walking the baseruner back to the bag get into the runners head? A quick hard throw will get not only into the baserunners head ,but all of the baserunners heads.A hard accurate throw will will get there quicker then runing/walking to the back everytime.A catcher who can throw hard and accurate wil have even the coach rethinking about stealing or big leads.

My DD is a catcher and has done both the quick throw back to the pitcher and the walk-back. It depends on how she reads the runner of which way she responds. Her catching coach has instructed her to let the runner know you are watching them. That may mean stare-downs between pitches, walking back to base, quick throws to bases, whatever it takes to intimidate the runners and the other coaches. Her catching coach prefers the quick throw back to the pitcher but they have to be ready for it because that throw may be just as hard as her pitches.

She likes to make points. One game the other team yelled during warm ups that my DD didn't have an arm. So she purposely overthrew second base during warmups just about to the wall. It shutup the other team, she made her point, and they didn't even attempt a steal. That was 16u.

 

[RookKev]

I think at this age, there are two other factors that often will come into play, especially at the rec level.
1) Ability of girls to catch and throw. You rarely see an effective pickle. Usually a bad throw/catch will destroy that. So the enticement to throw is meant to do just that, entice an error. Throw behind the runner, and she takes off right at the next girl to catch the ball. Unaware that they cant stand right in front of the runner (the ball hits the girl in the back).... type situations are normal. Balls to the outfield are even more common than an accurate throw that hits a runner!
2) Walking by catchers... boy, you'd never think about a catcher being a tool to burn up the other teams pitching.... but, let's say x team is a good team, and coach has good pitchers, maybe even 3 of them. And the other team only has 1 good pitcher. So the team with one good pitcher uses his catcher to walk back runners. Runners are leading off, it's on them as far as wasted time. But before you know it, those nice strolls up the third base line can chew up 5-10 minutes of game time. Guess what, now, you've eliminated the quantity of pitches and innings in a game. In most rec leagues, this means they never have to cycle off of their primary pitcher... and thus, by slowing the game down so much, the lesser talented team has their best opportunity to stay in the game.

 

[PA SB Dad]

Actually, at 12U and 14U, it is easier to delay steal on a catcher who throws the ball back quickly to the pitcher when they do not look the runner back. It takes a few pitches to get the timing down, but once you do, it is very easy.

We teach our catchers to make the runner commit back to the base if they are more than 10 feet from the base (one step back is enough). Once they have their weight going back, get the ball back to the pitcher and don't waste any more energy. If they are less than 10 feet from the base, few runners are fast enough to get 50 feet on a delay steal, so look at them and get the ball back quick. If the runner is dumb enough to stand in the baseline more than 10 feet off the bag as the catcher comes out, they are in jeopardy and we make a play on them if it is a short throw for the catcher (or pitcher).

 

[coachtucc]

I tell my catchers (12U) to mix it up...quick throw to pitcher...walk back??? no run back...quick snap to third base then get out of the way...fake to third base, quick back to pitcher...keep mixing it up so the runner has no idea what you are doing!!

 

[tghorley]

Intimidation is a great defensive tool also. During the early spring my DGD had a hard time getting the ball to second base without bouncing it. So steals were quite common. Thru some drills shared on this board, including weighted balls and plenty of long toss, she not only began to get the ball to second base in the air, but now it is more on a line. But what really surprised me was during the summer after the pitcher warmed up she began throwing a rope to second base from her knees. Now coaches don't try to have the runners steal so much and most don't make it that do. The runners are also staying closer to the bases. No she does not throw the runner out from the knees, yet!

Getting back to the original reason for this post, yes, DGD does throw the ball back to the pitcher hard, not walking the runner back. But before she started this, she did have a talk with the pitchers and let them know the why, when, and where. The pitchers are athletic and she does not worry about them catching the ball. She also told the IF to make sure the bases were covered because the pitcher may twirl and throw. Just make sure everyone in on the same page.

The funniest thing I have seen on this was a runner was on third base. Batter walks and first base coach tells her to keep going to second base after she had reached first base. In the mean time, DGD had thrown the ball back hard to the pitcher. DGD saw runner was going so she shouted to throw to 2. Second baseman was standing at second base with the ball when the runner arrived. Runner was so shocked she did not even slide. That was the third out and first base coach was shouting "My fault, my fault."

 

[greg99]

That is a good story tghorley. I think that would work 90% of the time if the coaches woulds just stop giving up second base on a walk if theres a girl on third. It MOST cases i would take the out and give up the run. Stops the big inning. you would ahve bases empty with one out or two and one run across. I would be OK with that MOST of the time. Sure it would depend on the score and what batters are coming up.